airboats will do in liguasan marsh, not hovercraft





like this one but with soldiers on board, not tourists armed with cameras...he heh e

You have a point there, friend.

I was considering the "multi-mission" factor though.

Airboats and Hovercraft are damn noisy beasts - they wouldn't do in any stealth assault like Zodiacs with silenced outboard motors - which I believe is most applicable for Liguasan Marsh ops by either Force Recon or PNSWAG elements.

more info on that boat please, licker.

zodiacs are just inflatable rubber boats, specwarries usually use silenced motor from point of launch then paddle the rest to their objective for complete silence

Wow this thread has totally crashed downed to the marshes :demon:

And to add to the mayhem, here's my own suggestions for Liguasan Marsh operations:

Combat Rapid Raiding Craft







We could really use this to carry damage assessment (for real) after a PAF bombing run.
And off course...to finish off those who manage to survive the bombs...
:armytwisted:

but the boat can only carry 7 troops.

a single bullet can deflate and sink that rubber boat, right?

with a hovercraft, it is more protected and can even be armed with a 50 cal machinegun to provide fire cover.

plus the fact that it can carry much more troops or an enough number of assault unit to crush the rebels there.

the hovercraft can even run after them even if the rebels take take the dry land.

while with rubber boats, the soldiers cant.

rubber boats are perfect for small unit spec ops missions.

but with cases like in Agusan, i believe the Marines or the Army will be best protected and supported with these hovercrafts.

Mods,


Could you please transfer the series, starting from my post down to the last reply, to the Marines/Hovercraft thread?

Thanks.

Sorry for messing up this thread.

:armygrin:

Finland's Jurmo

Now that's the thing we're talking about in the other thread our troops needed during waterborne operations.

Armoured protected boat similar to what we did in the guntrucks, possible?

Maybe we can make a similar one, what do you think guys?

Jurmo-class or Watercat M12 troop carrier is built by Marine Alutech of Finland, similar boats are built by Swedeship Marine in neighbouring Sweden; pricey though, contract for four Swedeship fast supply vessels to UAE was worth US$12 million.

Don't we have the capability to build similar but cheaper boats?

This one might look easier to make and cheaper, the Raider Light Attack Patrol Craft



http://shipbroker.net/list/detail1.asp?ship_no=8935

The PNP MG and PCG can also use it for port security operations.

Thats easy to make but small capacity boat, not a troop carrier which can carry a squad or two.

The assault craft 10 pax version might fit other unit requirements such as the SR teams as discussed in the other thread.

Special Boat Units, do we have such in our SOC?

Special Boat Unit Mission

The mission of an SBU is to employ, operate and maintain a variety of surface combatant craft to conduct and support naval and joint special operations, riverine warfare, and coastal patrol and interdiction.

Special Boat Unit Capabilities

The SBU is capable of infiltrating and exfiltrating forces, providing small-caliber gunfire support, conducting coastal patrol, surveillance, harassment, and interdiction of maritime lines of communication, FID operations,

http://www.specialoperations.com/Navy/SBR/





Nice for the SR and other SF extraction.

The U.S.N. Seal's experimental VSV (Very Slim Vessel)

http://www.specialoperations.com/Navy/VSV/default.html

The brasilians have been testing CB90 on the Amazon river
River assault

Insertion

High speed in shallow waters

Group landning craft G-Båt


30knot supply ship ( not tested in Brasil)

The G-Bat and CB90 looks perfect for our Special Forces' riverine commandos if in case our AFP will assign them to patrol the Liguasan Marsh.

The G-Bat and CB90 are perfect for our SWAG and other units too. :thumb: :thumb:

Let's wish the modernization program drafters will include these two in their acquisition plan.

Australia to donate boatS to pursue JI militants in RP

By Agence France-Presse

AUSTRALIA is to donate 30 river boats to help the Philippine military pursue Bali bombing suspects who are alleged to have set up Islamic militant training camps on Mindanao island, Defense Secretary Avelino Cruz said Monday. The fast flatboats would allow the insertion of troops to go after Jemaah Islamiyah (JI) militants in marshlands on the large southern island.

The boats would help Filipino troops "get to the terrorists who may have bunkers in these marshlands," Cruz told the Foreign Correspondents Association here.

Canberra would procure the watercraft within three months under a bilateral agreement it signed with Manila, he added.

The planned donation was announced amid fears among Western security agencies that JI militants blamed for the two bombings on the Indonesian resort of Bali that killed more than 200 people, many of them Australians, have fled to the southern Philippines.

They alleged that the militants had been given shelter and training facilities by Muslim separatists waging a decades-old insurgency on Mindanao island.

"The Jemaah Islamiyah threat is not a serious one at this point," Cruz said.

However, "it has the potential to become a serious threat."

http://www.inq7.net/globalnation/sec_new/2006/mar/13-02.htm

30 riverboats ...fast flatboats?

What are these? Jon Boats or assault craft?


Assault Boat

The Mk 5 Assault Boat is usually paddled for a silent or night-time approach. The all aluminum boat can be carried by four men or dragged overland by two.

A versatile, general purpose craft designed to carry up to 20 troops or 1,043kg of stores, it also makes a useful ferry craft when fitted with an outboard motor. It is fitted with built-in grab rails, buoyancy tanks and protective keels (which act as stabilisers in the water). Assault Boats may be stacked six deep for storage or transport.

or Rigid Raiders?




Rigid Raider

In service with the Royal Engineers, Rigid Raiders are fast patrol craft with glass reinforced plastic (GRP) hulls, used for patrolling coastal and inland waterways. The craft are equipped with single or twin 140hp outboard motors and come in two versions: Mk 1 (coxswain plus 8 troops, or 1,000kg of stores, maximum speed 50kts light, 30kts laden) and Mk 2 (coxswain plus 10 troops and 650kg of stores, or 20 troops, maximum speed 30kts laden).

http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/ab/ab_csb.htm

The G-Bat and CB90 looks like winners to me and I hope we get those types of boats in the near future but if Australia is donating boats specifically for the liguasan marsh, well...more probably they would be smaller boats.

Well, as long as they are free and those boats gets to the right units, at's mighty fine! :thumb:

The problem there is that these rebels will just escape somewhere safe upon hearing you guys coming.

If these are rubber boats, then it will only endanger the lives of the soldiers. They need boats that have armour protection or something.

I suggest they give us those CB90 or any similar type as long as these arent rubber boats.

These boats will be effective when these are permanently deployed in Liguasan, providing a 24/7 patrol on the entire marshland.

This will definitely limit the movements if not totally deny the rebels of a sanctuary or base.

We should not forget the air assets here because these will surely come in handy when the targets are spotted.

The G-Bat and CB90 indeed is the best out there right now and is quite expensive and going back to CDF's discussion regarding the need for boats for our SR and SF operations, they go for something simpler, transportable that's good enough to do the job.

http://pdff.sytes.net/index.php?showtopic=1092&st=90

Maybe in addition to those above we could check the following model or types.



PBLs in tandem, for river patrol, transport and interception.



Mini-Armored Troop Carrier (MATC), saw at Sir Opus' timawa, the PMC are using these



River Patrol Boat (PBR), see the twin .50 gun mounts, I believe that's where the PMC Guntruck copied it's mount.



Special Operations Craft-Riverine (SOC-R), replaced the PBL

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/sys...soc-r-specs.htm

Following the Tamils brown water navy, maybe our forces can do their own backyard boat manufacturing like fiberglass projects and get surplus boat engines ending with something like this:



SEAL Team Assault Boat (STAB) Modified Boston Whaler of fiberglass construction.

Displacement: 3 tons (approx)
Length: 20 feet (approx)
Beam: 9 feet (approx)
Draft: 2 feet (approx)
Propulsion: 2 Outboard gasoline engines
Speed: 35 kts
Crew: 2-3 + 5-6 SEALs
Weapons: 4 single 7.62mm mg, 1 40mm Mk 18 Mod 0 grenade launcher.

or just like the PMC's abilities with their armours, make these:




Light SEAL Support Craft (LSSC)

Displacement: 5 tons
Length: 24 feet
Beam: 9.5 feet
Draft: 1.5 feet
Propulsion: 2 Ford 427 gasoline engines, 350 hp, 2 Jacuzzi water pumps
Range:
Crew: 3 + 6 SEALs Weapons: 2 single 7.62mm mg and 1 .50 BMG.



Medium SEAL Support Craft (MSSC)

Displacement: 17 tons
Length: 36 feet
Beam: 13.5 feet
Draft: 2 feet
Propulsion: 2 Chevrolet 427 gasoline engines, 350 hp, 2 MerCruiser stern drives, fuel - 300 gal.
Speed: 35 kts
Range:
Crew: 1 officer + 4 enlisted + 17 SEALs
Weapons: 4 7.62mm M-60 mg, 3 .50 BMG or 2 .50 BMG and 1 7.62mm Mini-gun, 1 60mm Mk 4 Mod 0 mortar.

or if they are more for an assault craft with better armour protection, something like this:



Assault Support Patrol Boat "ASPB"

See the RPG Cage System? And look at the firepower, a central turret with 105 mm howitzer with 20 mm canons and LMGs

http://www.sikorskyarchives.com/boat2.html

And what the ASG uses;



at 45 knots :wow:

http://www.timawa.net/contributions1.htm

as compare to the PN ship/boat seen in the background, matatakasan talaga tayo ng mga JI/ASGs.

we need fast assault boats NOW! :fire:

The appropriate setup is to form a group of ships instead of just one.

Even if the Navy gets a 45-knot craft, the rebels will always improve their own by putting in more engine or a better one.

The only thing they cant have is a helicopter and that's what the military can capitalize on.

These 45-knot boats can't outrun the choppers.

The setup would be to acquire OPV's with helipads. The Sea Cobras may be deployed to these ships.

The patrol ship can work in tandem with a smaller ship like the Andrada or any ship that can run at 35-45 knots.

There's a patrol ship / OPV that has a launching and retrieval system similar to the Cyclone-class. The RHIB will intercept slower boats. Then the chopper will be used to chase the fast ones.

much better! :agree: small and fast OPVs that has a helipad that can carry a light helicopter like the MD520. can also carry small rubber raiding crafts for assualt as well.

The USMC's new SURC (small unit riverine craft) looks like a very well thought-out design for riverine and coastal ops.



- Up to 18 troops + 2 crew (scale down troops if more guns and gunners)
- 3-4 weapons stations that can mount up to .50cal and AGL. The aft station also looks like a nice place to set up a light mortar.
- Range of 250 nautical miles, 3X the rigid raiding craft it replaced

- Waterjet propulsion (no water screws that can get tied up underwater), twin diesels
- Up to 30 knots cruise, 35 knots sprint, 40 knots max (0 to 25 knots in 15 seconds)
- Draft of only 2 feet, fully loaded

- Aluminum hull, strengthened with beaching plates (there's even a small bow drop ramp); 38' long
- The "collars" (tubular thingies on the side) are NOT air-filled rubber, but foam (something like hardened foam) that stabilize the craft and provide redundant buoyancy (claimed it will float the craft even if the hull is filled with water).
- The collars actually double up as shields -- they'll stop 7.62mm rounds.

- The USMC version naturally has electronic gizmos: a small surface search radar, depth sounder, GPS, advanced comms.

- Transportable via long trailer, landing craft (test-launched from LCUs and LCACs), or by air (C-130, slingload by CH53/CH47). Even just a small number of SURCs could be moved around where they're needed.

- Cost: USMC reportedly contracted the manufacturer between $30-60M for 100 boats, or $300-600 thou each. Not exorbitant for a craft of this type.

As-is, looks perfect for riverine/coastal ops. If the PA SOCOM -- and PMC -- require smaller boats, the design could probably be scaled down (say from embarking 18 down to 10).

-----

SURC on globalsecurity.org: www.globalsecurity.org/...surc.htm
Marine Corps Gazette article: http://www.dt.navy.mil/...archives/000070.html
Manufacturer's (SafeBoats) site: http://www.safeboats.com/...boat=surc

-----

Combat accounts (out of Iraq's rivers, of all places):

.

How does the British fast insertion craft compares to these models? Pang deep water lang ba yun? The only pix I saw of it was of one that got grounded during an exercise.

Landing crafts of Scandinavian countries:

Look at those speeds. 21 - 30 knots.

I found another fast one good for insertions:





Used by the Swedish Navy. Runs at 40 knots. Was sold in the market for USD520,000.

Maybe with those Aussie flat boats we could convert it to this;

Here's another recommendation for riverine operation of the AFP (PA/SR, PN/M, SOCOM)



52-1: 52' military utility boat designed to pack 7 tons at 30 knots and built to ABS High Speed Naval Craft Classification.
Length: 52 feet (15.85 meters)
Beam: 16 feet (4.87 meters)
Hull Type: PACKMAN mono hull
Power: Twin Caterpillar C12 660 hp
Propulsion: Hamilton 364 waterjets
Fuel: 450 gallons
Top Speed: 43 mph light ship
Homeport: Classified

PNP/DENR



PCG



http://www.billmunsonboats.com/aboutus.html

Army to buy seacraft in fight vs rebels

CAMP EDILBERTO EVANGELISTA, Cagayan de Oro City — The Philippine Army will purchase seacrafts to beef up ground forces in the fight against communist insurgents in Northeastern Mindanao.

Army Chief Lt. Gen. Victor S. Ibrado made his decision after Brig. Gen. Ricardo A. David, Jr., area command chief of the Army's Northeastern and Northern Fourth Infantry (Diamond) Division briefed him on the recent attack on two island tourism towns in Siargao island, Surigao del Norte last week.

In a command conference here yesterday, Gen. David told the Army chief about the debacle in the pursuit operation without seacraft support against the fleeing rebels who attacked the municipalities of Dapa and General Luna.

Gen. Ibrado approved the 4th IDs request for fund support for the purchase of two seacrafts to enhance security of island municipalities and provinces, particularly in Surigao tourists provinces.

"We will initially purchase two watercrafts," pledged Gen. Ibrado.

The estimated amount of the two seacrafts is P500,000.

During command conference with the PA command group and 4th ID , the Army chief commended the 4th Diamond troopers for their series of successful operation the past two months where President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo lauded the troops and even personally pinned medals and spot promotions to the soldiers in Bukidnon and Surigao. (Mike Crismundo)

http://www.mb.com.ph/PROV20080710129453.html

I wonder what type? I just remembered the need for boats as discussed by CDF at the SR Sniper Sustainment Training Thread.

http://pdff.sytes.net/index.php?showtopic=1092&st=90

Whatever type that is, make sure it carries one 50 cal gun at the front ang 2 30cal gun at the stern.

Parang may V150 sa dagat ang Army pag may 50 cal gun.

consider night ops as well.

This one?




(from Timawa.net)

That's slow.

Mas mabilis pa yung outrigger na mas maliit. The rebels will simply speed away.

Correct sir flipzi, sa tinggin pa lang mabagal na yan eh... How about yung mga nakuhang Abu Sayaff speed boats? ano na kaya ang nagyari dun? nagagamit pa kaya ng Navy- SWAG yung speed boat? :dunno:

WHAT THE HECK IS THAT CRAFT??? LIKE OUR PINOY BANGKA WITH EXTENDED FLOATING BOOMS (MADE OF KAWAYAN) ON EACH SIDE OF THIS CRAFT...

HOW CAN WE (PN/PA) CHASE SUCH FAST CRAFTS USED BY BANDIDOS (LIKE ABU SAYYAFS, ETC...)??

:headbang: NOW I KNOW WHY OUR NAVY IS NOT FEARED BY THESE BANDIDOS/ TERRORIST...