Hey you faithful citizens! What we need are fighter-bombers!

I would recommend the F/A-18 Hornet or we can refurbish the F-4 Phantom II. Bothe are products of the McDonnell-Douglas Corporation.

:snipemo: :snipemo: :snipemo: :snipemo:

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=blue]Semper Fidelis et Paratus

Scrap the Phantom and get the Hornets, by all means possible.

Might as well, consider the Gripen. :thumb: :thumb:

At 20 million US a piece, is it not a good buy?








Considering purchase & maintenance cost,.... the GRIPEN is our best choice! :thumb:

CHECK THIS THREAD

Flipzi, how did you get those pictures on your reply? They're awesome!

:snipemo: :snipemo: :snipemo: :snipemo:

Semper Fidelis et Paratus

a similar thread was created not long ago.

i got the photos from yahoo search.

BTW, if in case you dnt know, you can post pictures by getting their hyperlinks.

like this one ....

( http://www.airforce-technology.com/project...ges/gripen5.jpg )

... then just click the IMG button then paste it there and presto.

:armywink:

BTW, the Phantom is just TOO OLD and they say that it is too expensive to maintain also.

The Hornet is a much better option.

Thanks. What do you think of the F-22 Raptor?

:snipemo: :snipemo: :snipemo: :snipemo:

Semper Fidelis et Paratus

Great piece of hardware!

We cant have them though bcoz we dont have the money. :exactly:

If we cant have them bcoz of that, then there's no need to talk about it further.

It's just a waste of time and you'll end up hating the govt! :armywink:

Welcome to the forum commando!

Try viewing the other threads. Nice interesting topics from our fellow posters both from here and abroad, as to the advantages and disadvantages as well as why our country can't move on to it's modernization program.

Enjoy! :aberet:

A4s, F5Es and Kfirs. Attack helicopters plus more C130s.

ANC has reported that in the Political Parties summit at the Manila Hotel yesterday, among the other mattes discussed were the modernization of the AFP and the PNP. The report was so sparse it merely mentioned that these matters were discussed but no action points or specific directions were reported. I wonder if action issues were discussed, will try to look for other threads. In any event, the politicians must stop talking and act now until it becomes too late. :fire:

Other issues considered were the attempt of Cong. Ocampo to go to Netherlands to discuss reopening of peace talks with Joma, the ban on political turncoatism, a proposal by Brenda Santiago for the discussants to foreswear all political ambitions. Sino naman kaya ang kakagat dito.

Most needed aircraft fot PAF are like Rocky Serrantes said at this time are 2 squadron of F-5E's and a 1 squadron of either A-4 of Kfir's for SAA. more OV-10's and Helecopters and least 6 operational c-130's and 2 LRPA. these will act deterent force for 5-10 years while the PAF is shopping for a 4th ot 5th generation aircraft.

My 2 cents worth.

More refurbished/upgraded Huey helicopter,C-130's,SF-260W,OV-10's. With night flying capabilities. And of course more operational budget for a sustained operations not only limited for a 2week skirmish.

I'd rather suggest that our PAF acquire the smaller version of the C130. Not just a few but at least a dozen. They could be used to ferry and supply our troops and even be configured for other missions. The C130s would then be freed for the more important logistical demands. With the smaller C130 version (or any good equivalent) we could configure them as mobile hospitals, command stations and even as AWACS type. My dream for such platform is to configure them as seaplanes to increase their use in our archipelegic nation. The next would be more utility helicopters like the Hueys. Though I'd rather get one with a more powerful engine yet still easy to maintain trait. With a strong economy brought by internal stability (due to the quick mobility then afforded by these support aircrafts) we can then buy sophisticated multi-role jets.

okay

no need at all



a peice of advice buy second hand stuff with good condition

in order of priority

1. Utility Helicopters (S-70, UH-1Y/Huey II, AB139, etc.)
2. Multi-Role Transports/MPAs (CN-235/C-295 or Antonov-140)
3. Integrated Air Defense System (radars, datalinks, communications, C4ISR)
4. Fighter Bombers (second-hand/new-build F-16 or Gripen)

emergency procurement: Gunships (AC-47T)

I suggest that we should instead acquire second hand F5E or Kfir jets . we cannot afford the 4th and 5th generation aircraft. and even if uncle Sam gifted us with brand new F16 or F/A18 for free, we still cannot afford to maintain and upgrade it periodically. Just look at our S211 (it is fairly new acquired brand new in 1989)about 6 to 8 are flying and the rest are lying idle in the hangar because there is no money for maintenance. Our F5A is practically mothballed. Every year I use to see the F5A flying even here in Metro Manila for flight and parade training, but that was six years ago. I don't see them anymore!

Acquiring at least 2 squadron of F5E or Kfir would at least maintain the flying profiency of our pilots. that is assuming that we can maintain them.

Cityhunter is right the PAF is in desperate need for more helicopters, attack helicopter and plane for CAS and C130 transport aircraft. internal security first before external security.

1. Utility helicopters (more UH-1Hs, Mi-17, AS-565UB Panther)
2. Tactical transport planes (C-130, CN-235, C-212, Basler T-67)
3. Fighter aircraft (Kfir, F-5E/F, Mirage F1)

Well, my choice for the most needed aircraft for our country are the one with VERSATILITY and HIGH SURVIVALITY RATE in any mission it will take whether as an Air Defense Fighter or Bombing and Strike Mission.

I choose the Twin-Engined Multi-Mission F-18 HORNET or SUPERHORNET as the best choice and well suited for the defense requirement of our country. Having TWO RADAR IN ONE, F-18 Hornet or Superhornet is designed and truly created as an excellent Fighter and Bomber/Attack aircraft. A true MRF in a world of combat aircraft.

Second Option is GRIPEN or F-16 block 40 or 50/52

Another aircraft most needed by our country are MARITME PATROL AIRCRAFT and AIRBORNE EARLY WARNING SYSTEM.

for Helicopter, the most venerable and rugged UH-1H in HUEY ll configuration and SIKORSKY S-70 are just enough as long well maintained and with the capability to operate day and night in all weather condition.

If Budget restriction is the name of the game then might as well go for the second hand highly upgraded KFIR 2000/C-10 with more accent on Smart ammunition and BVR missiles. Peace to all.

If the PAF is serious in buying MRFs in the future, I propose that they send tech and pilots to the different countries that make one and study there. Even do OJT work if they have to. The F16 and F18 are indeed impressive but they lack certain characteristics available to Western European makes and ComBloc ones. The Typhoon sports a voice activated controls which would help things especially in time of stress. ComBloc ones are rugged and the MiG 29 was proven to be superior in close combat/dogfights. Its detection equipment at such ranges is superb. The new Sukhois sport rear facing radars and even rear firing missiles. Not only that, it even has the thrust vector ahead of Western makes. When the time comes that we get to finally buy a MRF we could mod them to the best potential they could be. Just like the Israelis and Singaporeans. We may even beat them at that game.

City Hunter, :agree: !!!

What's the cheapest BRAND NEW utility helicopter out there?

In the short term, we need ASAP....

1. Hueys.... More hueys
2. Medium lift transports and liaison planes (do-it-all turboprops)
3. CAS aircraft (rotary wing and fixed wing turboprop)
4. MPAs/Surveillance UAVs

In the long term, we'd need...

1. LCAs
2. MRFs
3. A decent groundbased AD system AAA and SAMs included

But before all that, the PAF and the rest of the AFP should fix the way it spends its reeancated nanobudget

STOP SPENDING ON UNNECESSARY EXPENSES LIKE too much infantrymen in PAF BDAs AND EXCESSIVE BASE BEAUTIFICATION

NOTHING MAKES AN AIRBASE MORE BEAUTIFUL THAN A DECENT FLIGHTLINE DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MRFs are the romantic choice of most but I agree with the minority who voted for utility helos.

Lets finish off the insurgency first so we can focus on higher-end military acquisitions.

Hello, I have just been through reading the previous posts and all (well not all hehe) of you have nice ideas.

Here's my idea. Basically, I would like to think that what is the role that we would like our Air Force to do. I think I can categorize these into two: securing external threats and securing internal threats. By external threats I would like to mean from other countries and internal threats for insurgency. Why am I asking this is that I am sure that our Air Force, with the current proposed budget cannot do both (as in like air superiority - securing the skies) ...

So if internal threats, then we could just postpone those MRFs and switch to much more better, cheaper but effective alternatives (some people have already provided some cheap alternatives) .

For external threats, I just don't know. I'm always thinking a scenario like "what if the enemy decided to invade us full force after procuring one or two or even 20 of our dream aircraft, would this be sufficient?" ... just something to think about ... anyway, my vote will always go for air superiority aircraft.

On a side note, can we consider AA missiles (think SAM sites) as part of the air force?? hehe they fly in the air and they are a force to be reckoned with hehehe ... probably, we should also focus on this area too.. which is cheaper, SAM Sites + radar or Aircraft?

:agree: i certainly igree sir tora^2! i salute you!


:agree: i also agree with sir hydronprime, good point!

As I pointed out before, focusing on eliminating an insurgency is NO EXCUSE to let down on external defense. Countries with comparable insurgencies to the RP, such as Thailand and Colombia, still has respectable air forces with MRFs in spite of those insurgencies (the Pattani Liberation Front in Thailand and the FARCs in Colombia).

What's wrong with having MRFs that can do both the CAS and interceptor/strike roles?

I'd go for the Gripen and maybe some Kfirs also for training and some additional C-130s for transportation means and more hueys for the AFP that can be modified as ground-attack gunships or just transport helis.

yes sir MSantor, i agree with you, BUT these countries has the money to buy aircrafts for external defence, unlike ours which has a very weak economy (thailand has the money for their military while columbia is being "assisted" militarily and financially by the U.S.). still, we all are dreaming that our country (AFP-AF) should have the capability for external defence (we all know the capability of our neighbors as well as china - spratly dispute mostly).

for now (for our current budget) we should focus more on the internal treat (lessen or, if pwede, eliminate it). that's why for me we should acquire/need the ffg:

1. repair/refurbish and/or acquire more helos (UH-1 huey II, MD520/Bo-105)
2. repair/refurbish and/or acquire CAS/COIN aircrafts (OV-10s, SF-260, or other equivalent aircraft)
3. repair/refurbish and/or acquire addn medium transport aircraft (C-130, F27 or equivalent)
4. repair/refurbish and/or acquire STOL transport aircraft (PC-6 or equivalent)
5. acquire UAVs
6. acquire other support aircraft (BT/AT-67 turbo basler gunship)

if budget permits, we could have some additionals:

7. contingent of LCAs
8. mobile SAMs and/or convert AAMs to SAMs with mobile launchers
9. repair/refurbish and/or acquire AAA (20mm and 40mm)

comment...

yes sir MSantor, i agree with you, BUT these countries has the money to buy aircrafts for external defence, unlike ours which has a very weak economy (thailand has the money for their military while columbia is being "assisted" militarily and financially by the U.S.). still, we all are dreaming that our country (AFP-AF) should have the capability for external defence (we all know the capability of our neighbors as well as china - spratly dispute mostly).

for now (for our current budget) we should focus more on the internal treat (lessen or, if pwede, eliminate it). that's why for me we should acquire/need the ffg:

1. repair/refurbish and/or acquire more helos (UH-1 huey II, MD520/Bo-105)
2. repair/refurbish and/or acquire CAS/COIN aircrafts (OV-10s, SF-260, or other equivalent aircraft)
3. repair/refurbish and/or acquire addn medium transport aircraft (C-130, F27 or equivalent)
4. repair/refurbish and/or acquire STOL transport aircraft (PC-6 or equivalent)
5. acquire UAVs
6. acquire other support aircraft (BT/AT-67 turbo basler gunship)

if budget permits, we could have some additionals (FOR EXTERNAL DEFENCE, for now):

7. contingent of LCAs
8. mobile SAMs and/or convert AAMs to SAMs with mobile launchers
9. repair/refurbish and/or acquire AAA (20mm and 40mm)

comment please...

In a period of 15 years our country with its currrent economical situation the RP should be able to acquire 70-80 brand new Gripens...
The Gripen--being a JAS(Jakt/attack/Spanig) would be the best choice since it could be used for internal and external missions...

Gripen:

http://www.gripen.com/en/MediaRelations/Vi...ction/video.htm

I would go for Attack helichopters. They have great use in both external and internal conflicts. They could destroy possible invanding armor or go hunt some rebels in the jungles and montains....

If I was the one asked I'd say a good multi-purpose twin-engined helicopter with radical but doable mods in the works or ready for integration. Something to replace the Hueys and give that extra sense of security when hopping between islands. The others can follow once enough of these helicopters are in service. They should be able to support combat and civic missions. What type of helicopter? Will have to check but as all know me I'm more for own development or a joint-one developed and made here.

my vote is ...

a good utility twin turbo STOL aircraft..like twin otter/nomad/dornier,etc..
very few of the nomads & islanders are online,most are nearing the end of their airframe life.
so the PAF is forced to use the huey to deliver supplies to the islands.
most of these places cant accomodate the C-130.
remember choppers are about 3 to 6 times more expensive to run /pound of payload.

second.. OV-10 Bronco.
how i wish we have the A-10,i say scrap the attack heli and get the A-10!!.for me attack choppers are over rated anyway.arguably downright dangerous.
i wish we can s.l.e.p. and re-engine more OV-10's they're just perfect coin machine.

third..AN-APS-117
dual use,air traffic/surveilance doppler radar(8 to 18pcs) or equivalent.
our country is losing revenues from air/shipping traffic,etc..
i think i dont have to say more.

the rest... hehe they can wait.
we have waited this far to the point our friends Malaysia,Vietnam,China,Brunei(sick bast**ds)
saw our weakness and grabbed a small land but a huge territory of ours.
i wish they choke.GRAB then TALKS!!!
i thought the slums of Manila have lots of low-life sharks.no respect.


:btt:

well i think we need a fighter that can take out enemy positions and take out infantry so i go for a fighter bomber

A squadron of night capable Attack Helicopters.
4 Squadron of interim interceptors F5E
2 Squadron of MRF preferably Griffin JAS 39 :werock:

Here is my list for priority crafts for the PAF

1. Grippen MRF (2 squadrons)
2. 4 more C130 (prefably brand new for transport)
3. 10 more attack helicopters
4. 2 or 3 hind copters

GO Gripen GO! GO GripenGO! MRF :patrioticpinoy:

Gripen...

Revise ko yun sagot ko as malabong ma-accept ng mga naninibago sa radical concept. I'd go for more C-130s and smaller types of it (I forgot the name but I believe Indonesia makes such). We create modular parts for it para maging radar, electronic warfare, rescue, gunship with night capability, bomber and even storm chaser.

for me:

most needed:

1. medium lift transport planes like the C-130;
2. light STOL tactical transports like the PC-6 or equivalent;
3. tactical transport / utility hicopters like the UH-1H Heuy II
4. attack helicopters like the AH-1F/S;
5. trainer / light attack turbo-prop aircraft like the wongbee, super tucano or equivalent;
6. FAC / COIN / low reconnaisance / attack / light-bomber aircraft like the OV-10;
7. trainer / attack / AShM-capable jet aircraft like the MB-339/359, L-159 or equivalent
8. maritime patrol aircraft like the beech-king series
9. small to medium type UAVs

next phase:

10. multi-role aircraft like the F-16 or the Gripen


cheers! :salute:

:fire: DH.98 Mosquito
PAF Mosquitoe Fighter/Bomber

General characteristics

Crew: 2: pilot, navigator/radar operator
Length: 41 ft 2 in (13.57 m)
Wingspan: 54 ft 2 in (16.52 m)
Height: 17 ft 5 in (5.3 m)
Wing area: 454 ft² (42.18 m²)
Empty weight: 13,356 lb (6,058 kg)
Loaded weight: 17,700 lb (8,028 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 18,649 lb (8,549 kg)
Powerplant: 2× Rolls-Royce Merlin 21/21 or 23/23 (left/right) liquid-cooled V12 engine, 1,480 hp (21 & 23) (1,103 kW) each
Performance
Maximum speed: 318 kn (366 mph, 610 km/h) at 21,400 ft (8,500 m)
Range: 782 nmi (900 mi, 1,500 km) 410 gal/1,864 l fuel load at 20,000 ft (6,100 m)
Service ceiling: 29,000 ft (8,839 m)
Rate of climb: 1,740 ft/min (8.8 m/s)
Wing loading: 39.9 lb/ft² (195 kg/m²)
Power/mass: 0.189 hp/lb (311 W/kg)

Armament
Guns: 4 × 20 mm (.79 in) Hispano Mk II cannon (fuselage) and 4 × .303 in (7.7 mm) Browning machine guns (nose)
Avionics
Armament
Bombs: 4,000 lb (1 800 kg)
Avionics
GEE radio-navigation
:patrioticpinoy:

AI Mk IV or Mk VRadar (NF variants)