You are the Chief-of-Staff of your country's Armed Forces. A joint Army/Marine study has suggested the replacement of the two services' light armor assets consisting of tracked M113 Gavins and wheeled V150/300 Commandos in APC, A/IFV and FSV configurations. In order to have a smaller project cost, the study suggested to upgrade existing inventory and procure new platforms, rather than to put in reserve existing inventory and procure new platforms to replace mothballed units. Congress has approved your request and a limited budget has been appropriated.

What will choose? and why?

good for phillipines to have bionix ifvs and future singapore build thunderbolts st kinetics too can modify ptresent m113s for improvement :thumb:

I would like to see a fully motorized (or mechanized) PA infantry division equipped with Casspir mine-protected APCs, MOWAG Eagle multipurpose vehicles, refurbished/improved Gavins in various configurations, Primus SPHs, G5 towed howitzers, and Buford AGS or ASCOD Light Tanks. An air assault battalion equipped with Mi-8s or Mi-17s with Defender attack/recon helos crewed by Army pilots would also be a good addition. :thumb:

LAV-25....good mobility specially for the Philippine terrain.Good firepower and the same time it can swimmm.

most applicable for our marines

other than the scorpions and simbas, what other armored vehicles or tanks do we have?

You can go here:

Opus AFP Armor page

its comprehensive :thumb:

You were right. The site is comprehensive. Why, I didn't realize till now why the 25mm Simba was such a light vehicle. Must be the one-man, pedla powered tube frame chassis. Also great to presenting a low target profile not to mention readily expendable and replaceable power units.

:urpointis:

Do you really know AFVs or you mistook the Simba for a pedal-powered tricycle.

How much $funding$ are we talking about here for 'new' Armored Combat Vehicles anyhow?

I'd transfer all the 4x4 V-150 APCs to Army reserve and regular National Police units.

UpGrade all the remaining V-300 6x6 APCs with more advanced steel armor plate, spall liners, and 'reactive armor' for better protection against RPGs. Run-flat tires, jam proof communications, fire detection/suppression systems. Install passive Night Vision driving and fighting gear. And finally install power operated, two man armored turreted 20mm Giat cannon.

UpGrade and develop three different variants of V-300s most of which would be APCs, with about a third being Fire Support Vehicles armed with a 'breach-loaded' turreted 81mm Mortar & coaxial .50HMG. With at least a dozen serving as specialized Armored Recovery Vehicles.

All the M-113 APCs, FSVs and ARVs would get the same types of UpGrades, with the exception that at least 5-would be converted to Armored Command & Control Vehicles.

The ideal 'future' Armored Combat Vehicle for BOTH the PhilARMY and Marines is the ACV-S

"ACV-S is a stretched version of the FNSS ACV which is in service with the Turkish Land Forces, the United Arab Emirates and Malaysia and has been ordered by Jordan. The ACV has been deployed in Somalia, Bosnia and Kosovo with Turkish Land Forces in support of UN peacekeeping operations. Over 2,500 ACV vehicles have been ordered.

The vehicle is suitable for fast deployment by rapid reaction forces, requires no special permit for road transportation and is air transportable on a C-130 Hercules."

"The vehicle also provides amphibious operation."

This IS perhaps one of the best reasons to procure this vehicle:

"The ACV-S has high commonality of components with the ACV-300 and the M113, which gives the advantage of reduced logistic requirements in spares inventories, training, reliability and maintainability."

High commonality of components with the M-113.

And the stretched ACV-S provides the crew and embarked infantry squad with a much higher level of protection than a standard M-113.

"ACV-S SELF-PROTECTION
The armour gives protection against 14.5mm armour piercing rounds. Optional add on armour kits and internal spall liners provide protection against 30mm ballistic rounds and rocket propelled grenades such the RPG-7 armed with high explosive anti-tank (HEAT) rounds."

"For protection against mines the vehicle is fitted with a floor spall liner and 18mm armour plate in the floor. The vehicle is fitted with collapsible shock absorbing seats. The sponsons have additional armour which provides increased protection to the driver."

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/acv-s/acv-s10.html



http://www.army-technology.com/projects/acv-s/index.html

The other obvious choice especially for the PhilMARINEs is none other than:

Whoops! My copy job didn't take. LOL

This IS thee Armored Combat Vehicle for the PhilMARINES. It's also in operational service with several other nations including at least 50 with the South Korean Marine Corp.

BMP-3 fording





















http://www.army-technology.com/projects/bmp-3/bmp-38.html

If the PA is to buy a brand new Infantry Fighting Vehicle, what do you think it should be?

I am an active PA infantryman and if the decision is up only to me my choice is the British Warrior. :)

it should be the Singaporean Bionix - light, powerful, tracked, well-armed and less costly than european or american types

Phil Army troopers have always been vulnerable to roadside ambushes and mine blasts killing them while on board Humvees and trucks. Its time for the Army to consider mineblast protected transports like the Bushmaster:

* Excellent cross-country mobility and handling characteristics. The Bushmaster was designed for the most daunting Australian terrains but is equally suitable in a range of environments and conditions such as highway, mud/snow and sand and emergency conditions
* Arvin Meritor all wheel drive independent suspension. Coil springs, wishbones and double acting hydraulic shock absorbers complete the suspension package with differential locks front, centre and rear
* Caterpillar six cylinder, turbocharged electronically controlled emission compliant diesel engine providing up to 330hp (240kW) and exceptional torque at low speeds
* Choice of ZF or Allison automatic transmissions
* A high cruising speed of more than 110kph (66mph)
* Extended on road cruise range capacity - only requiring refuelling every 1000kms (600 miles)
* An optional central tyre inflation system that allows the driver to adjust tyre pressures in transit
* An optional self recovery winch
* Maximum ease of repair and maintenance with modular power pack
* Variants of the Bushmaster include:
o Troop transporter (standard variant)
o Command and control
o Ambulance
o Direct Fire Support Weapon
o Combat Engineer
o Scout

http://www.adi-limited.com/2-01-010-040-030.html

i like the bionix too for its speed, firepower, operational ease and general adaptability to philippine conditions, having been designed with malaysian terrain in mind , which of course is very similar to our own.

similar to the casspir, are there other similar vehicles aside from the casspir and this bushmaster?

speaking of malaysian terrain then malaysia's ACV300 Adnan is for me and its more than a match to the Bionix...its got the Bushmaster 25mm cannon in the Sharpshooter turret, aircon, tacvav, nbc protection among others :thumb:

i just cant find a picture of it...

The MEXAS armor of Bionix is touted to stop RPG hits but pound for pound, the Adnan, which is highly improved FMC AIFV derivative, is the most capable combat vehicle in SEA region currently.

im intrigued with this Adnan, where did Malaysia buy this vehicle or is this an indigenous vehicle?

Swit, Adnan is the Malaysian designation of the Turkish ACV-300. Malaysia has around 200 Adnan combat vehicles in 10 variants.

I also like the Warrior - it has Chobham armor, the same armor found on Challenger tanks.

CV9030


But look at this CV90 with the AMOS


# High rate of fire thanks to the double barrel concept
# Low chassis loads thanks to the recoiling mechanism; even a wheeled chassis is usable
# Ballistic protection against infantry weapons and splinters for crew
# Muzzle blast and NBC protection for crew
# Large on-board ammunition supply
# Rapid deployment thanks to instrumentation for vehicle location and attitude; well suited for shoot & scoot tactics
# Full 360° traverse without limitations thanks to turret mounting and recoil mechanism
# Direct fire capability
# Suitable with standard 120 ammunition as well as smart guided ammunition and cargo munitions

CV90 info

Hindi ko alam kung ano ano ung mga APCs o IFVs sa Pinas, pero kung mobility at armaments ang pag uusapan, iba pa rin ang STRYKER ng US, they just certified un, at yan ang gamit namin nila ngaun sa IRAQ, at very effective yan, :fire: :fire:

stryker hasnt really proved effective in iraq yet the strykers are assigned in areas where there are less ambushes and attacks in the north of iraq

for the phils i think any of the new light and modular afvs/ifvs will be most suitable

If brand-new, Id go with Adnan-similar AIFV/M113 derivatives.

.. For the supposed cost, Strykers have proven to be too vulnerable to RPGs... and to heavy in the sands... than are currently in service...

From Time Magazine:

A More Rapid Army?

But according to the Government Accountability Office (GAO), even a stripped-down Stryker weighs 19 tons, two more than the C-130 routinely carries. And Iraq has exposed the Stryker's shortcomings. To protect against rocket-propelled grenades, common in every war zone, the Strykers in Iraq wear a 2.5-ton cage of steel. This also makes them too large to fit aboard a C-130. The steel cage is only a temporary fix. But the final solution — form-fitting armor that will be ready next year — weighs even more, 4.5 tons, and takes 10 hours to bolt on.

Why the preference for Western APCs/IFVs?

My choice is BMP-3. Best bang for the buck.

a lot of these Brit vehicles have gone surplus, will make a nice compliment to the PA's British-made Simbas and Scorpions, what do you think?


Spartan is a derivative of the CVR(T) vehicle (Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance tracked). Spartan is used by specialist troops which can include Mortar Fire Control Teams, anti aircraft teams equipped with HVM, or as Engineer Command/Reconnaisance Vehicles.


Sultan is the Command and Control variant of the CVR(T) family of vehicles which came into service in 1972. Light and highly mobile, Sultan is used as a Command or Headquarters vehicle in armoured and armoured reconnaissance formations.


Saxon is a wheeled Armoured Personnel Carrier (APC) capable of travelling across rough terrain and fording water obstacles up to 90 cm depth. The vehicle has excellent battlefield mobility and is extremely versatile.

Saxon variants in service include a Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers (REME) recovery vehicle; armoured ambulance; command post vehicle; internal security version; and vehicles modified to carry an L37 General Purpose Machine Gun (GPMG) turret.

Link

Why not try Centauro B1 of Italy..The vehicle has eight strong wheels and armed with 105mm that can fire any standard NATO rounds..The armor body can stop 50 caliber rounds and the front armor can defeat 23mm rounds.Suitable for Philippine terrain.Combat proven in Somalia and Yugoslavia if im not mistaken..Peace :armycheers:

While I know that what limited funds the AFP has should be allocated to more important things, I'd like to lay out these ideas.

Project 1 - Transfer all V-1xx Commandos (plus materiel and spare parts) in service in the PA, PAF and PNP to the PMC.

Why? The PMC operates the V-1xx and V-3xx Commando family of APCs and FSVs. In terms of logistics and supply, it is much more efficient if only one service of the AFP operate the Commando.

Sub-Project 1A - Convert the V-300 APCs into FSVs. The V-300 APCs have the 1m turret armed with a combination of a AGL, 12.5mm or 7.62mm MGs while the FSV is armed with a 90mm Cockerill gun.

Question: Can the V-1xx be amphibous too, like the V-300? If yes, then convert them into amphibous too.

Sub-Project 1B - Re-habilitate the mothballed 30+ LVTH/P-5/6s. It does not take an engineering miracle to re-engine these mothballed assets. Taiwan has already done it. However if the cost of re-habilitating these assets is greater than the cost of acquiring ex-USMC AAVP7s, then the AAVP7s would be the better choice.

With upgraded V-1xx, V-3xx and LVTH/P5/6/AAVP7, the PMC can now perform better amphibous operations.

Project 2 - Replace the PAF and PNP/SpecOps V-1xx (which was transferred to the PMC) with the Simbas from PA stocks. The PAF and PNP use their V-1xx for police duties (ie. guarding installations, transport of spec ops troops, etc.). The Simba should be appropriate in these type of duties as it was the intended role for these APCs.

Project 3 - Replace the PA V-1xx (which was transferred to the PMC) and Simbas (which was transferred to the PAF and PNP) with the Kalakian variant. The Kalakian was borne out of the experiences of the PA with the Simba. With a wide range of armament options, the PA should be left to configure it as they see fit.

Project 4 - Up-gun and up-armor the Scorpions. One of the options Alvis provides for the Scorpion is the 90mm Cockerill gun instead of the usual 76mm gun. Overhauling (or replace) the engines would also be a good option.

Project 5 - Upgrade the M113 Gavins. There are several companies around the world that upgrade Gavins, including FNSS of Turkey (from where we bought the new ARV which, incidentally, is an M113 variant). Upgrades include newer engines, applique armor, spall lining, etc. Up-armoring the M113s will give it all-around protection against up to 14.5mm rounds and even RPG HEAT rounds.

Project 6 - We already have M113 FSVs using Scorpion turrets with a 76mm gun serving in the PA and the PSG. Why not take it further? Convert the upgraded M113 Gavins into FSVs and mate them with Scorpion turrets with the 90mm Cockerill gun. This is my favorite option. You now have an APC that, not only can transport troops into battle, but can effectively support AND protect them as well. Actually with these assets, the Scorpions will be redundant. So instead of getting more Scorpions, just get more of these. Not to mention that the rounds needed for the 90mm gun is the same rounds needed by the PMC V-3xx FSVs.

Imagine also the increase of efficiency that will benefit the AFP Logistics Command. Parts and supplies for the Commando goes to the PMC; for the Simba/Kalakian goes to the PAF, PNP and PA; Scorpion and Gavins goes to the PA; 90mm shells go to PA and PMC; etc.

And before I get flamed for thinking about these outrageous ideas, these are just that, ideas. Personally, I prefer that our soldiers be given the basics first. Things like better uniforms, boots, rifles and so much ammunition it'll come out of their ears. Tactical radios and NVGs would also be a welcome addition.

Anyway, forgive my ramblings. Its just the product of an idle mind in this otherwise boring day...

Of the three, I like the Spartan best, Saxons too are good for transporting trops in mine and ambush prone areas.


How about the Scimitar?

:armysmile:

New Tenix S600 APC


The Shorland S600 Armoured Personnel Carrier (APC) offers a spacious air-conditioned interior and up to 1,000km range for the rapid deployment of a full rifle section complete with combat load.

Ballistic and mine blast protection is on par with many other light armoured vehicles, but at a fraction of the initial purchase and through life costs.

The APC offers seating for twelve personnel and a total of 3,300kg payload, whilst retaining the handling characteristics and terrain profile mobility of an unloaded Mercedes-Benz Unimog military truck.

LEGEND:
1. PA Siren/Speaker (Option)
2. Grenade Launcher Controls (Option)
3. PA System Controls (Option)
4. First Aid Kit
5. Gun Port (Option)
6. Gunner’s Platform
7. Grenade Launcher (Option)
8. Hull Vision Block
9. HVAC Ducting
10. Fire Extinguisher
11. Grenade Ammunition Stowage (Option)
12. Ammunition Stowage
13. Pioneer Tools (Option)
14. FESS Extinguisher (Option)

and the Police ISV version:

The Police ISV can be fitted with a broad range of options optimised for urban operations including powered sliding door(s), barricade removers and surveillance equipment. Other optional extras include grenade launcher, public address and surveillance systems. Configuration flexibility is the cornerstone of the Shorland S600. The Shorland S600 can carry out the most demanding of mission profiles while providing effective protection from small arms and fragmentation effects. The Shorland S600 is ideally suited for a range of internal security operations whilst offering the flexibility to deploy on international peacekeeping and humanitarian missions.S600 APC with Gun Mount, Grenade Launchers and Winch S600 Police ISV with 8 person Riot Control Squad.

Tenix

:snipemo: gawa na lang tayo ng madaming kalakian.. then upgrade the existing APC.. mas ok pa..

BMD-3U

Close up of turret

Mga bok, the bigwigs are seriously considering the Temsah infantry combat vehicle from General Dynamics...ano say nyo?

Are you sure?

The Temsah is a Jordanian effort, I don't think they will market that to the Philippines.

tracked and suitably armed, sounds good if true

The German Army has ordered the MUNGO
crew 2+8 or 2000kg is airtransportable, protection against 7.62

More pics and info And another site


And the Germans have ordered the Dingo

:armyeek: (how much is the kalakian??)

The Swedish Army has orderded The rm-32m from SA

http://www.alvis.plc.uk/news/NewsItem.cfm?id=200180

Probably a deal forced thru counter trade deals in the Gripen buy ( really not bad because without it, the army probably hadent gotten the vehicles)