Can he carry firearm outside from his duty ?

If so, what was the justification?

Every soldier and even the PNP personnel can carry his service firearm as long as he has an MR and MO with him.

All military/PNP personnel are still "on call" for duty even when they are not actually on duty status in their respective posts; and, they are still facing the dangers related to their being uniformed men even they are outside their workplaces during their RR/passes or leaves. For this reason, some personnel are given appropriate documents authorizing them to carry their side arms for their personal protection.

There are incidents that abusive soldiers have used their side arms to hurt somebody unnecessarily just as there are civilians who commit this same offense too. The AFP has implemented stricter policies to correct these misdemeanors. Some policies include:

1. No Basic Pistol Marksmanship Training and Gun Safety Handling, No M.O.
2. Soldiers who commit atrocities especially when drunk are discharged from the service. This is a result to the infamous Mindoro Massacre committed by a drunk soldier in 1999.

If Sgt Geonzon is proven to have violated this regulation, for sure he will get what is due to him as provided by the new PA policies. :grrr:

He might be authorized to carry his firearm in the prevailing circumstances , but I don't think that there are no restrictions on the paperworks of the auhtorization to carry firearms outside duty.

Like for instance a police or military personnel carrying firearms while drinking inside a bar and soliciting the services of a prostitute, not to mention the offense committed while under the influence of liquor.

While it is paramount to carry firearms for protection, it is also indispensable to lay down restrictions, wherein firearms can be carried in certain places especially when the soldier or police officers are not in uniform.

"GUNS AND ALCOHOL IS NOT A GOOD CHEMISTRY"

You mentioned a key point there, PNP and AFP men should only carry officially issued firearms when they are in uniform. If they carry concealed firearms, guidelines should be explicit and clear. Stepping into a public place that serves alcohol without official orders, should be dealt with legal steps under such guidelines.

Is there a law banning military men from entering girlie bars and nightclubs?

A gunfight in Lipa City where a cop and an Army sergeant was killed stemmed out of a bunch of Army idiots involved in a drunken spree inside a girlie bar.

There's a standing order for cops, largely ignored in the provinces. I'm not sure if the same applies to AFP personnel. All I know is it's generally lenient in the provinces than in MM.

That was a tragic incident indeed.

Soldiers attack Lipa City police station

LIPA CITY (DPA) — Army troops on Friday attacked a police station in the Philippines in a bid to recover two firearms seized from a drunken officer in a nightclub, injuring 10 policemen, officials sa

Forty soldiers swooped down on the police station of Lipa City, 75 kilometres south of Manila, before dawn, said Senior Superintendent Franciso Don Montenegro.

"The army troops disarmed and physically maltreated duty personnel at the station," he said.

The attack was led by Captain Rommil Abayon, the operations officer of the army’s special forces battalion in the area, who was immediately relieved of his post.

Don Montenegro said the soldiers were trying to recover an M-16 rifle and a 45-caliber pistol seized by policemen from Abayon who got "drunk and became unruly" in a nightclub three hours earlier.

The soldiers, however, took more than what they came for, seizing an AK47 assault rifle, three M-16 rifles, four 9-mm pistols, three 45-caliber pistols and two 38-caliber revolvers from the station.

Chief Inspector Ruben Castillo said only 15 policemen were on duty when the 40 soldiers barged into the station in full battle gear.

While a colonel later returned the firearms, Castillo said the injured policemen were planning to file criminal charges against the attackers.

Lieutenant General Pedro Cabuay, a regional military commander, said Abayon has been sacked and would be undergoing investigation.

"He has been relieved pending results of a joint police-military investigation," he said, adding that Abayon was restricted to camp and placed under the custody of his commanding officer.

http://www.mb.com.ph/PROV2005111248939.html
http://www.philstar.com/philstar/news200511129901.htm

Special Forces... :headbang: 40 brainless heads following orders from a brainless :drunk: officer. Any gains accomplished by the unit, the Army and the gov't could go to waste.

and here we are debating which modern equipment our goverment should buy for our armed forces... :headbang:

This particular attitude by these military personnel, is no different from what the terrorists are doing.

To me, these scalawags deserved to be behind bars and be wiped out from the rolls.

If they can still get away with this, it bespeaks the military's zero balance as far as respect and dignity is concerned.

:agree: This could also be a sign for our government to look into improving our Service's recruiting process. I'm sure it's an isolated incident, but it always takes a few scalawags to ruin the reputation of the dedicated rest.

This is not right.

The Army must do something about this so that this will not be repeated!

The Army officer should have taken the legal process in redeeming the firearms.

The Army chief should act on this so that the rest will now think twice, or a hundred more, before they break the law.

The military should always uphold the law. Else, that transgression will be the rallying point for more troubles that will drag them down and deny them the needed sympathy from the public.

The public should know whatever outcome of the investigation on this incident down to the Court Martial of the scalawags involved.

This incident is a real picture of what the Lost Command (deserters) normally do during their reign of terror in Agusan Sur under Ladi "Toto" Lademora in the mid-80's. Maybe some of them had read the biography.

If these guys who raided the police station to retrieve confiscated Fas can get away with it in the same way as Lademora did, then our military and justice system is a farce.

Although we expect that this is an isolated incident, it is but fair to let the public know what appropriate action the military did initiated to pin down this villains.

could this be a failure of proper leadership promoted by poor adherance to proper command/afp doctrine? the leadership is there but produces soldiers who are "bata ni ganito, bata ni ganyan". loyalty to the person rather than the organization/countrty/constitution. maybe it is past due to teach the officers to stop promoting this "culture" in the military. maybe it is also time to teach the soldier to say NO to illegal orders. may sound difficult but what better place to introduce it. the army is after all, a structured, rigidly disciplined, organization.

Army captain in Lipa police station raid faces dismissal

First posted 01:01pm (Mla time) Nov 18, 2005
By Joel Francis Guinto
INQ7.net

AN ARMY captain who led a raid on a police station in Lipa City in Batangas province last week will be dismissed from the service, Army Chief Lieutenant General Hermogenes Esperon said Friday.
Esperon issued this statement even before Captain Rommil Abayon could face a court martial that would try him and his troops for allegedly raiding the police detachment.

"I will assure you, tanggal yang si Abayon [Abayon will be dismissed]," Esperon told a news conference in Fort Bonifacio.

"I'm just waiting for the independent report coming from the Special Operations Command. Then I will direct the convening of the court martial," he said.

Before dawn on November 11, Abayon led some 40 of his troops from the 1st Special Forces Battalion in seizing several firearms from the Lipa City police station.

Reports said Abayon was getting back at policemen who confiscated his M16 rifle and 45-caliber pistol at a nightclub earlier. He was relieved from his post later that same day.

Esperon said Abayon's men who "willfully" joined the raid would also face a court martial while those who did not know that they were going to attack the police station would be spared.

Abayon and his men have been recalled to Fort Magsaysay in Palayan City, the headquarters of the Army's 7th Infantry Division for further investigation, Esperon said.

Charges of robbery, direct assault, and malicious mischief have been filed against Abayon and 14 of his men who stormed the police station, said Senior Superintendent Pedro Quimo Jr., Lipa City police chief.

Charges of resisting arrest and direct assault have been filed separately against Abayon over the nightclub incident, Quimo said in a phone interview.

He explained that only 15 of the 40 Army troopers were charged since they were the only ones identified by their battalion commander, Lieutenant Colonel Paolo Miciano.

http://news.inq7.net/breaking/index.php?in...&story_id=56948

dismissal only?

It sounds funny to accept that not all those army personnel who join the raid did'nt know the purpose of the raid led by their superior officer,and some of them are to be spared from liability. They are not ducklings that will just follow "mother goose" without knowing where they will be heading to.

All of them are presumed to be liable of the concerted acts they committed. Of course, some of them have a lighter participation but still criminally liable, and they can be qualified to be utilized as a state witness in a criminal or court martial proceedings. They can get away from the criminal case if they cooperate but somehow cannot be spared from the cudgels of dismissal from the military service.