Please select one naval platform which you think is best needed by the PN today.

i vote for offshore patrol vessels. ;)

fan ako ni bossing israeli kya kung ano gusto nya gusto ko rin

:D


opv pow - at least isang dosena

voted MRFs, six minimum

We all NEED those listed ships/boats but in the interim, OPVs are the most needed.

bakit wala batleships? ok yun for phils

OPVs - most pressing need :thumb:

Not OK
Too big, too costly to operatre and maintain.
Very impractical.

di ba the bigger the better? kung malaki barko natin e kahit isa lang battleship puede na

Me too, i vote for an Offshore Patrol Vessel.......basta its a multi-platform one.........

Multi-role frigates

We need them for power projection in the SCS :)

am not really much knowledgeable in naval weapons so I have to ask this before i vote my choice - what are OPVs and how do they differ from multirole frigates in their tasks?

its because someone said he votes for OPV as long as its multiplatform which i perceive to be almost the as multi-role.. :wacko:

you can wait for mr. israeli to enlighten you on this... :)

for everyone,

please refer to http://www.amiinter.com/vessel_type.html

Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPV)

In response to a number of environmental and economic concerns, world navies and/or coast guards developed a type of patrol vessel, the OPV, which is capable of patrolling the waters of an Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) for extended lengths of time. By virtue of its mission, an OPV must be relatively large (generally over 700 tons) to possess the necessary range and seakeeping characteristics needed for extended offshore patrols. The higher in latitude a Navy operates (North or South of the Equator), the larger the wave heights and therefore the larger an OPV will be. For example India operates in waters that are known for very rough conditions. Some Indian OPVs are beyond 2,000 tons displacement. An OPV is often built to commercial standards and is slower (generally around 20 knots) than its corvette and frigate cousins. However, some nations will build OPVs with space and weight margins for future weapons upgrades. These types of OPVs will generally be built to naval standards including hull and equipment shock requirements. An OPV is generally lightly armed (a medium-sized gun), but is sometimes fitted to carry surface-to-surface missiles (SSMs) or ASW equipment in wartime. Most new construction OPVs are also equipped with a helicopter deck and hangar to enhance its patrol capabilities. It can be assumed that the hull design for a corvette and that of an offshore patrol vessel are very similar. The differences will be in propulsion and outfitting for each application. Offshore patrol vessels will have slower speed, less armament, and greater space for provisions and habitability thereby allowing for greater endurance and range.


Corvettes (FS)

Corvettes are fast (around 25 knots or better), well-armed ships that displace between 700 and 2000 tons. A corvette is generally not intended for extended ocean-going operations, and is best suited for regional operations. Corvettes are generally the smallest platforms capable of accommodating the sensors, weapons, and combat systems needed to operate in a medium threat environment. Corvettes are sometimes referred to as light frigates (FFLs). It can be assumed that the hull design for a corvette and that of an offshore patrol vessel are very similar. The differences will be in propulsion and outfitting. Corvettes will have higher speed and therefore less endurance and range than OPV, much greater armament, and less space for provisions and habitability.


Frigates (FF or FFG)

A frigate is a medium-sized surface combatant (between 2,000 and 5,000 tons) that is either suited for one specific role (anti-submarine warfare or anti-air warfare), or has lesser all-around capabilities than a destroyer. A frigate may be less capable than a destroyer, but is still a relatively sophisticated and expensive (averaging around US$325 million apiece) platform. A frigate is generally the smallest surface combatant that can conduct extended blue-water missions in a high-threat environment.


Destroyers (DD or DDG)

A destroyer is smaller, and less capable than a cruiser, but is also capable of operating independently in a high-threat environment. Destroyers have steadily grown in size (now 5,000 to 10,000 tons), expense (nearly US$700 million apiece) and capability. Generally, a destroyer is considered to be a ship that has all of the sensors (including a sophisticated phased-array radar), combat systems, and weapons needed to operate in a high-threat environment. A number of world navies are currently building ships that, while called frigates, more accurately represent destroyers in size and capability. Examples include the Spanish F-100, the German F-124, and the Dutch De Zeven Provincien classes (all are highly capable ships displacing over 5,000 tons and carrying phased-array radars).


---------------

an offshore patrol vessel is modular in design. although it carries small and medium caliber guns as defensive weapons during patrol duties, an OPV can be refitted with SSMs and SAMs when the need arises. however, there are some OPVs that carry SSMs or full-suite of weapons. among those vessels include:

* French Navy Floreal class OPVs, each of which carry two to four Exocet SSMs and has accommodations for 80 special forces personnel.



* Brunei's British-built Nakhoda Ragam class OPVs, each of which is armed with 8 MM40 Exocet SSMs, 16 vertical-launched Seawolf SAMs and 2 triple 12.75 inch torpedo tubes aside from the one 76 mm OTO Melara dual purpose main gun and two 30 mm guns.




peace! ;)

that nakoda ragam is armed to the teeth for its size, how many do brunei have?

Brunei ordered three Nakhoda Ragam class OPVs from BAE Systems. the names of the vessels are Nakhoda Ragam (the flagship; launched June 2001), Bendahara Sakam (launched June 2001) and Jerambak (launched 2002).

here's what Naval-Technology.com is saying about the Nakhoda Ragam OPVs....


http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/nakhoda/




NAKHODA RAGAM OFFSHORE PATROL VESSEL, BRUNEI


The Nakhoda Ragam class of 1,940t offshore patrol vessels are being built for Brunei by BAE Systems. The first and second of class, Nakhoda Ragam and Bendahara Sakam, were launched in January and June 2001 at the Scotstoun shipyard of BAE Systems Marine. The launch of the third patrol vessel, the Jerambak, took place in June 2002. The Royal Brunei Navy will operate the ships from the Muara naval base.

The governments of UK and Brunei agreed a Memorandum of Understanding in 1994 on defence co-operation. Brunei issued a revised request for tenders (RFT) in 1995 for three offshore patrol vessels. In 1995 it was announced that BAE Systems (then GEC Shipbuilders) had been selected as the prime contractor.

The ship design is a new variant of the F2000 family. A high level of automation in the ship allows operation by a crew of 79. Accommodation is provided for the crew and an additional 24 personnel if required.

COMMAND AND CONTROL

The patrol vessel is equipped with the Nautis II command and weapons control system supplied by Alenia Marconi Systems. The Nautis II has multifunction consoles to support engagements against airborne, surface and submarine threats. Data is downloaded from the ship's sensors and weapons systems to provide a battlezone/operational area situation display as well as navigation, target tracking, threat and weapons allocation and weapons control functions. The command and control system can also operate in training mode to provide realistic simulated scenarios and engagements.

MISSILES

The vessel's anti-ship missile is the MBDA (Aerospatiale) Exocet MM40 Block II missile, with a range of 70km. Range and bearing data are downloaded into the missile's on-board computer. The missile uses inertial guidance for the cruise phase of the trajectory and then active radar homing by active monopulse seeker head. The sea-skimming missile approaches the target at high subsonic speed, 0.9 Mach. The two blocks of four launch tubes are arranged crossed, one block facing starboard and one to the port side, on the missile deck to the stern of the main mast.

The ship's surface to air missile is the MBDA (BAE Systems) Seawolf, which has a range of up to 6km against aircraft or missiles. The missile uses a microwave link command-to-line-of-sight guidance system with television and radar tracking. A solid fuel propulsion rocket provides a speed of Mach 2.5. The 16-cell VLS (Vertical Launch System) is installed in the forward main gun deck between the main gun and the bridge.

GUNS

The main gun, Oto Melara 76mm Super Rapid, installed on the forward gun deck, provides defence against surface and airborne targets. The firing rate is 110 rounds per minute and range is up to 16km. Two MSI Defence DS 30B REMSIG 30mm guns, installed on the port and starboard side on aft upper deck forward of the flight deck, are capable of firing 650 rounds per minute to a range of 10km.

TORPEDOES

The ship is equipped with two triple 324mm torpedo tubes from BAE Systems.

COUNTERMEASURES

The electronic warfare suite includes a Thales Sensors Cutlass 242 electronic support measures system and a Scorpion radar jammer. The Super Barricade decoy launch system from Wallop Defence is installed on both sides of the raised mast deck just aft of the bridge.

AIRCRAFT

The aft flight deck, approximately 285m², has a single landing spot for a medium size helicopter, such as the S-70B Seahawk. The ship does not provide hangar facilities.

SENSORS

The ship is equipped with a Radamec 2500 electro-optic weapons director, which includes an eye-safe laser range-finder, TV and thermal imager and is used for gun fire control and surveillance. The hull-mounted sonar is the medium frequency Thales Underwater Systems TMS 4130C1.

The large rectangular antenna of the E- and F-band air and surface search radar, the Alenia Marconi Systems (AMS) AWS-9 3D for surveillance and target indication, is mounted at the top of the main mast tower. The radar system includes two AMS 1802SW I/J band radar trackers, which provide target illumination for the Seawolf missile system.

ENGINES

The ship is powered by four MAN 20 RK270 diesel engines driving two shafts. The ships achieve a speed of 30 knots. The range at an economical speed of 12 knots is 5,000 miles.

i cant vote, but as of right now, id like to see MPA/surveilance plances than large surface combatants, yes the only MPAs in AFP service is in the PAF (fokker-27 MPA version but they has since been stripped of surveilnace and patrol equipment and relegated to transport duty) , but the navy from the facts that it has the patrol boats needed but no coordination and a heads up from the air, needs these ships. just the facts that the AFP needs these planes so badly is shown by the fact that US eP-3 aircraft has been allowed to be stationed in benito ebuen to perform maritime patrol and surveilance duties on behalf of the AFP.

But apo, we still need modern surface combatants to complement the MPAs, both platforms need each other to be fuly effective.

bat di tayo kumuha ng mga vinta at mga bangka, lagyan ng .50 caliber machine guns, tapos diesel engine, hahaha, patrol boat na yun, hahahaha!!!!! :lollol: :lollol: :lollol: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Multi role frigates and then OPV.

OPVs/MCMVs/corvettes -> patrol SSKs -> FFGs -> DDGs

sa recoil impact at vibration pa lang ng .50 caliber MG, sira na ang vinta patrol banca mo.

fast patrol boats:::

and since we are getting cozy with the Insik Kuakangs, lets acquire some of this:::




:armytwisted:

Destroyer..Destroyer.....

anything larger than corvette will be too costly to maintain

corvette or mrf na lang

MULTI-ROLE FRIGATES. :thumb: :thumb:

These can even handle future tasks.

The ones which have a helipad.

AEGIS-Class frigates are the best model but financial concerns cant bring that to reality.

I would suggest those that are made from Australia.

They've got lots of these which are fitted with helipads for attack choppers os ASW choppers.

OPVs shall be the next choice.

we need ships...space ships from the ETs!

careful careful mr. guest, the mods of PDFF are not very tolerant of hecklers...don't say i didn't warn you :armysmile:

Ground based Radar Stations, and Coastal Underwater Listening Posts.
The components, if the items are chosen wisely, can be COTS for economical upkeep, maintenance and above all, sourcing.

As for interdiction AFTER detection... why would the perps be in our waters? If it's to drop some stuff off, then land assets can intercept the landed subjects. If they're NOT dropping anything off, then it's a less critical matter of our border dignity, rather than any real security threat. Realistically, wht is the real threat we anticipate? It's dangerous to throw money after a non-Philippine defense model.

Unlike many of our neighbors, we're not geographically jammed up against another country, and that distnce is our friend. Unless you want to close the distance with provocative forward assets.

I'd have to disagree with the need for OPV's.
In the South China Sea?
What would we be projecting force against, really?
The Chinese? You'd need a lot more than we have to back up that OPV (or any form of patrol we can muster) in an encounter, so why bother? Just how many surface and underwater assets do you think China could quickly send to the area for counter-intimidation?


After land-based detection assets, I'd want more Patrol Craft, maybe 30 more, even smaller than our corvettes if unavoidable, but only if they have adequate EOD, ASW, SSM, ECM and ECCM included and again the systems are COTS-heavy. Useless to get the latest electronics when there is no local commercial-technological infrastructure to source maintenance and spares from.

Lots of missile/torpedo patrol craft, and then maybe three to six quiet diesel subs.
In tandem with air force bases, it may constitute a substantial deterrent. Once the main Philippine archipelago's waters are reasonbly secure, then and only then should the force envelope be inched outwards to the Kalayaan chain. The current scehdule of land defenses on some of the islands, and air and sea patrols by light assets, has proven unprecipitous/unprovocative.

Until we can afford a fight far from home base, it might be best if we don't go spoiling for one.


:)
jm2

Horge. OPVs are most applicable to the Philippines given the archipelagic nature of our country.

Get OPVs first then force-projection platforms later.

We need to protect our economic zone first and only OPVs could do it effectively.

Hi :)

I do not dispute that the marine EEZ needs policing.
However, for me it is a matter of priorities.
Incursions into the EEZ are one thing.
Incursions into our coastal waters, within sight of shore, are a more serious other for me:

When foreign warships are able to park within shouting distance of shore, load and offload materel nd persons without our permission, what does that mean for the safety and security of Filipino citizens? What does that mean for insurgent logistics and resupply? Now when foreign ships enter our EEZ, as offensive as it is, it remains less-clearly a threat to the safety and security of common citizens.

Building permanent structures in the EEZ is serious stuff, but the very reason why China is doing it is that it's CHEAPER than obtaining and maintaining an OPV fleet. Setting up radar and sonar stations in the EEZ ---just like the Chinese have done, means constructing dock, helipad or airstrip, living quarters, and missile/AA/artillery defenses against errrr... pirates?

But it remains for me that the EEZ is less sacred ground than the very beaches of Mindanao, Visayas, and Luzon.

I agree with patrolling our picketfence and guarding our gardens,
but there's a surplus of burglars already looting the house, and quickly gone in a wink. They get in nd leave scot-free because we don't spot them early enough to get nearshore assets on-scene.


Just me.
:)

OPVs makes a lot of sense, but I still prefer Corvettes. If you have smuggels and Abus using speed boats with speeds up to 40 knots or higher, those OPVs will be left sitting in the water.

So what if those Corvettes doesn't have the endurance, let's buy more of them and let them patrol in shifts. They can even be replenished by a supply ship if necessary.

the OPVs are equipped with very fast speedboats and helicopters that could deal with poachers, smugglers and other fast moving targets.

the best OPV design for the Philippine Navy will be the French Floreal class. the Floreal class has provisions for 80 heavily-armed Marines or special forces and a range of 10,000 nautical miles. it can be armed with four MM40 Exocet SSMs, two two-cell Simbad (Mistral) SAM launchers, one DCN 100 mm/55 Mod 68 CADAM or 76 mm OTO Melara Super Rapido dual purpose main gun and GIAT 20 F2 20 mm anti-aircraft guns. the Floreal can carry, launch and support helicopters like the AS-565MB Panther or AS-532 Cougar.

for more about the Floreal class OPV, please refer to http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/wor...ope/floreal.htm

..therein lies the rub... we would need to procure supply ship/s or buy more corvettes to effectively patrol vast areas... overall, it would cost more.. dn't get me wrong, corvettes are nice, I like the idea of hitting an enemy fast and furious but we're talking about cost effectiveness due to constraints ryt?

the guided-missile corvettes are the ones tasked to do "combat sorties". they will also do patrol duties but JUST FOR A SHORT TIME. the offshore patrol vessels are the ones tasked to do much of the patrolling of the Philippines' vast territorial waters and EEZ. :armywink:

Shouldn't the OPVs be for the Coast Guard then, rather than the NavY?

there are some Coast Guards in the world that operate OPVs (e.g. India, US) but in the case of the Philippines, it is the Navy that should operate the OPVs. the OPVs are armed with large offensive weapons, particularly medium caliber gun. the Philippine Coast Guard, now being a civilian agency (under the Department of Transportation and Communications) cannot operate such a platform because it will be against its mandate to have such vessels.

correct me if i'm wrong but the PCG's task is now limited to search-and-rescue missions and security of ports and vital shipping facilities. the Navy is the one tasked to do long-range maritime patrol missions.

i prefer frigates or corvettes and fast patrol boats.

OPVs, they are just another version of frigates or corvettes, and bigger than fast patrol boats.

frigates/corvettes for coastal protection and the economic zone and patrol boats for anti-smuggling, specially in souther mindanao.

pounder, frigates and corvettes are short endurance warships compared to OPVs. We need frigates/corvettes/destroyers but the PRESSING NEED is for OPVs.

As to Jim's observation that OPVs cannot chase after smugglers, terrorists, & pirates but the OPV itself will not do the high speed chase but the helo and fast assault boats it carries with the SWAG on board.

I agree with israeli's choice of the Floreal.

Considering the PN's present capabilities, I'd go for Missile Corvettes, OPV's and Maritime/ASW Aircraft first for a start. Hindi pa kaya nang present budget, so we can somewhat extend them slowly with that. I'd love to see us have Figates and Destroyers later on, but the cost and training alone will probably strain the modernization fund.