Upgraded Hind gunship for COIN :thumb:

(In line with Stoner's idea of scenarios, here's one of mine.)

You are the commanding officer of your nation's Army (or Marines). A study of your Operations Department sees the need for the acquisition of attack helicopters to enhance the capability of the Corps in asymmetrical warfare. Congress has approved your request and a modest budget has been appropriated.

What is your choice? and why?

Ill be back to post a more detailed opinion but off the top of my head

Super Cobras

the Mi-24 Hind is surely one of the best close air support platforms in the world in its own right. however, i would still stick to the MG520 Defender attack helicopters that are now in service with the Philippine Air Force. the MG520s gave excellent service to the PAF as a close air support aircraft and counter insurgency platform.

the best suggestion that i can give is for the Philippine Air Force to upgrade all of its remaining MG520s and bring the total number of MG520s in service between 36 and 40 helicopters by purchasing additional MG520s from Mesa, Arizona-based MD Helicopters...


peace. ;)

The budget is modest Banahaw so Super Cobras are out - ;)

This is my proposal for a rapidly deployable independent airmobile regiment applicable to Aldon's scenario:

A regiment composed of 3 BNs with squadron of 8 AH-1 Cobra or Tiger HAP attack helos for each BN in the regiment.

For my Utility/Transport Helicopter(s) I'd go for a mix of two different helicopter to fulfil two distinct roles. Firstly, I'd buy a couple of squadrons of Lynx BLUH (or Battlefield Light Utility Helicopter) to move Helicopter Support/Ground Crews plus small specialised units (such as Forward Air Controllers, Forward Observation Parties, Sniper teams, etc) around the battlefield.)

For general transport duties, I'd go for a (relatively) cheap, big bird.... i.e. the ubiquituous CH-47D/F Chinook! It can carry a platoon plus supporting arms (SF MGs, AT Teams, Mortars, etc), or 2x TUMs (Land Rovers), or a 105mm LIght Gun or 10 tonnes of cargo!! The British Army love them, and I'm not about to argue with that! I'd simply buy as many as I could afford, but I'd be looking to at least enough to move a Battalion in one lift - say, 12 or more CH-47s.

Ideally, I'd like a battalion/regiment of light artillery based on the RO L118 (M119 in US Army) with at least 6 barrels for each Infantry Battalion. However, if my budget is tight, then I'd add a 120mm Mortar platoon to each Infantry Battalion.


TO&E

Preferred:

3x Infantry Battalions

1x Attack Helicopter Bn
24x Cobra/Tiger Attack Helicopters

1x Utility Helicopter Bn
16x Lynx BLUH
12+ CH-47D Chinook

1x Artillery Bn
18x L118 105mm LIght Guns


Minimum:

3x Infantry Battalions
18x 120mm Mortars

1x Attack Helicopter Bn
12x Cobra/Tigers

1x Utility Helicopter Bn
8x Lynx BLUH
9x CH-47D Chinook

Still a squadron of 8x heavy gunship like the Hind isn't bad at all. Parts for the Hind are as ubiquitous as Aling Nena's bibingka. :bounce:

Good TO&E Amateur General but the Tiger HAP is still an expensive helo. If we could wring out a few AH-1 Cobras from the US the better, if not, I would go for Mi-24s and Mi-8s or even the Rooivalk.

Personally, a dedicated helo transported regiment is too big (and expensive) for Philippine operations.

I would like to see a single Army Air Raider TF for quick strike operations against known enemy encampments and concentrations.

4 light infantry companies transported into the LZ by 14 Mi-8s or Mi-17s
6 AH-1 Cobras or 6 Mi-24 Hinds attack helos
4 MD520s for general recon/FAC/secondary CAS
1 Security and maintenance company
1 Special operations platoon
1 Intel coordination platoon

made in china helicopters are easily broken its best we buy american equipment

if im not wrong that helicopter is made in russia

the indian dhruv -

The Dhruv features a 'System Bolkow' four-blade hingeless main rotor with carbon fibre composite blades. The blades have advanced aero foils, swept back tips for reduced nose, and feature a ballistic tolerance against bullet hits of up to 12.7mm calibre. The fibre elastoner rotor head holds the blade between a pair of CFRP star-plates, with manual blade folding and a rotor brake provided as standard equipment. A four blade bearing-less crossbeam tail rotor is fitted on the starboard side of the pylon. Vibration damping is provided by an anti-resonance isolation system compromising four isolator elements between the fuselage and the main gearbox.

An integrated drive system transmission comprises of the rotor hub, main transmission, upper controls and main rotor hydraulics. The naval variant also has a retractable tricycle gear, a folding tail boom, a harpoon deck-lock, pressure refuelling, fairings on fuselage sides to house the main wheels, flotation gear and batteries. The Dhruv also features a four axis automatic flight control system, with an integrated control & stability augmentation system from France. The airframe makes extensive use of composites (Glass Fibre, Carbon and Kevlar) and accounts for 29% of overall structural weight and 60% of surface area.

The military variants include crashworthy fuel tanks, frangible couplings and infra-red suppressors for the engines. The helicopter design enables the crew to survive vertical impacts of up to 30 feet per second, due to the safety seats and a design of controlled deformation of fuselage crumple zones. The cabin was designed to seat 12 people, however 14 can be accommodated in a high-density configuration. Rearward-sliding passenger doors are featured on either end, with large clamshell doors at the rear of the cabin. The clamshell doors can be removed, in exceptional cases, to carry unusual & unwieldy loads. An underslung load hook is standard on military variants. The air ambulance variant enables the Dhruv to accommodate two to four stretchers, with a couple of attendants.

Avionics: The naval variant (also used by the Coast Guard) will feature the SV2000 maritime patrol radar developed by DRDO's Electronics & Radar Development Establishment (LRDE) for surveillance. The radar has the capability to detect and track airborne targets, sea surface targets (i.e. frigates) and sub surface targets (i.e. submarines) under sea clutter at a range more than 50 nautical miles (92.6 km; 57.58 miles). The radar is optimised to detect and track targets which have small RCS (Radar Cross Sections) like sea skimmer missiles (i.e. Exocet anti-ship missile) and low flying aircraft under sea and weather clutter conditions.

may sariling heli na pala ang mga bumbay ?? :blink:

In addition to helicopters, India has its own indigenous light combat aircraft, cruise missiles, small arms, main battle tanks and air defense destroyers. Not to mention, nukes.

Many of us are so engrossed and enamored with US-made weaponry that we tend to forget that other countries are silently and steadily developing their own arms industry.

Its not unusual even to hear from a serving AFP officer to blurt out "Its not US-made so its probably not a good weapon" :)

Speaking of the Dhruv, the Chileans have just evaluated its capabilities ---


Indian Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopters Demonstrated to Chilean Air Force, Army, and Naval Aviation Units


(Source: Israel Aircraft Industries; issued July 21, 2004)


FARNBOROUGH --- The combined Chilean Armed Services recently completed a series of evaluation tests of the Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopter which is manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and features an avionics system and glass cockpit provided by Israel Aircraft Industries, Ltd. (IAI).

HAL and IAI demonstrated the Dhruv's capabilities in various configurations that would correspond to the Chilean Armed Services operational requirements. The HAL/IAI team, which consisted of pilots, engineers and logistics specialists, brought four Dhruv helicopters to Chile, along with ground support equipment, spare parts and documentation.

The demonstrations in Chile were performed under a joint venture company owned by IAI and HAL, which is responsible for worldwide marketing and product support for the international version of the Dhruv helicopter.

The helicopters flew in different terrains and weather conditions and also flew high-altitude missions and long distance ferry flights. Evaluation flights, conducted in Chile, included the following capabilities demonstration:

-- Max. Internal load
-- Max. Internal load – underslung
-- Avionics and systems capabilities
-- Vertical climb, Decent, maneuvers, Net of Earth (NOE)
-- Troops slithering – "fast rope"
-- Search and Rescue mission
-- Drop commando troops
-- Rescue hoist operation

HAL's Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) is a multi-role, multi-mission new generation helicopter in the 5.5 tone weight class. Its state-of-the-art technology provides for lightweight and yet rugged construction, superior automated fuel management system and excellent all weather day and night capability. The ALH incorporated advanced features such as hingeless composite main rotor with elastomeric bearings, bearingless tail rotor & integrated extensive use of composites, ensures low life cycle costs & high power to weight ration apart from providing a high degree of survivability.

The ALH features IAI's integrated avionics package especially designed for helicopters. This package includes a "Glass Cockpit" concept utilizing a comprehensive electronic warfare suite, day and night observation capability, a targeting system and a flexible armaments carrying capability. IAI's Lahav Division developed the modular avionics package based on the same core avionics successfully utilized by Lahav in recent combat aircraft upgrade programs. The already combat proven package will enable helicpters to operate effectively and safely in modern battlefield conditions. The Israel Defense Force's vast combat experience is incorporated into IAI/Lahav's modular avionics package for helicopters. Its "Glass Cockpit" concept, comprehensive electronic warfare suite, day and night observation and targeting system, and flexible armament package have all been combat proven.

The ALH has been designed to meet the most challenging and stringent requirements of the Armed Forces and to the specifications of FAR 29. Further, ALH is most suitable to operate in varied climatic conditions, including hot and humid environment. ALH, with its proven high altitude performance, versatility & wide spectrum of operational capability, is able to offer excellent services and optimized solutions to meet a variety of demands from operators over land and sea. With passenger/troop capacity of 12-14 and wide range of applications like transportation, VIP communication, search and rescue, emergency medical services, law enforcement, off-shore operations, tourism and disaster management, the ALH Dhruv is an ideal vehicle for both military and civil applications.

Avionics by Israel - excellent helo then. Israel also upgraded the Kamov helos bought by South Korea.

Original Soviet design and manufacture now assembled/made/upgraded/improved/copied in at least a dozen other countries ;)

rallion, ;) how about we assemble/made/upgrade/improve/copy it in the Philippines... just pulling your legs .. :D

A helo heads up update...

US helicopter fleet facing dire future The Pentagons Committee formed to examine

The US helicopter fleet and it's future has released it's findings. The committee is known as the Joint Vertical Airlift Task Force (JVATF).
Their findings are discussed in Flight International. They do not make optimistic reading!
Here are some of the points:

:The US military fields 5500 helicopters currently.
:5000 reach life of type by 2025.
:Future spending plans envision funds to replace only 1000, mainly by remanufacture rather than new build, by 2025.
:Series defects identified in US helicopters in the 1980s have still not been rectified.
:All services have a requirement for a new heavy lifter with a payload of around 20 tonnes (This is where the Quad tilt rotor fits in). The Army wants a more capable Chinook replacement and this is becoming urgent. The average Chinook airframe is 36 years old!!! Chinook number 1 built in 1960 is still flying and not due for retirement until 2032 under current plans ( it goes for a remanufacture in 2012!).
The technological challenges of building a tilt rotor with this payload are IMMENSE and enormously expensive. For example there is no engine which could supply the necessary performance, on the horizen. The JVATF considers that even a massive development effort will not lead to a viable aircraft till AT LEAST 2020/25.
The USMC has so many CH-53E reaching life of type that they can't wait and are trying to get funding for a new build of CH-53s.

The major reason the Commanche was scrapped was it was consuming so much funding when the basic helicopter fleet is facing such a bleak future

How about buying aht AH-64D Longbow Apache as our main Gunship Helicopter? What do you think guys?

no, i dont approve of the Apache, its expensive to maintain and vulnerable to rpgs and machine gun fire as shown in Iraq - weapons common in nep and milf arsenal.

Guys lahat naman ng gunship vulnerable sa RPG eh, kahit ano naman. wala pa namang gunship na hindi tinatablan ng RPG or machine gun

kya nga e gusto ko mga light and cheap helos lang tulad ng Kiowa atsaka Defender or yung bagong NOTAR na nakapost dito sumwhere...

kung may bumagsak man, di ganong msakit sa bulsa...

The budget for Philippine Air Force is still ON-HOLD probably because its already down the drain or must have used for something else other than Modernization...The best thing to do is to revive some mothballed C47 aircraft that some private firms are still in using and convert it to Gunship platform/configuration which the PAF have done before....These aircrafts can easily loitter over a Target area since its slow and can stay for a period of time....OLD PAF AC47 were with 4- 50 cal. machine guns on one side firing at MNLF rebels during the 1970s....Also we got lots of C123 just parked along the tarmac at Mactan Air Base...Is it possible to recommissioned those mothballed C123 aircrafts by replacing their engines with the newer turpoprops...an additional aircrafts for medium lift transport for the 220th Wing

Australia will be soon retiring their UH-1H gunships once their Eurocopter Tiger helos are online. Look at these well-maintained birds:

..sorry I clicked the add reply button too soon

yummy helos inded but the ausies will just let them rot instorage rather than transfer them to the philippines :crazy:

You know something we don't, sean? Or was that just your biased (and useless) opinion?

perhaps he based his opinion on the current situation between the Philippines and Australia... :rolleyes:

ganda ng mga huey ng australia, parehong model ba sa atin ang mga huey nila? kasi mukhang mas bago tingnan...

Theyre almost the same, with some Aussie Bell UH-1s even older than ours. the telling difference is the Aussies have more money for upkeep and upgrading of their Hueys.

Beautiful shots. Those Aussie Hueys look like they just came out of the factory.

:snipemo: :beer:
Looks like new because they never really use it as Phil Air Force use our Huey
"kaya di laspag, walang tama ng bala" few flying hours probably the Aussies' only use themto shuttle troops in exercises and troop and supply transport

oo nga no wala naman silang giyera dun

Australian Army Huey helo - delivered to RAAF in 1968 and transferred to the Army in 1989.


Still operational in the gunship role. :thumb:

Australia bought 22 Eurocopter Tigers (the Armed Recon Helicopter variant) for a whopping price of $59million a copy. Two will be delivered in December while the rest will be assembled in Australia. The squadron is expected to be operational in 2007, which means the Hueys will also be retired by that year.


Australian ARH Tiger

What helicopter isn't vulnerable to RPGs and machine gun fire?

There is no such thing as an invulnerable weapons platform.

If the pilot dies, that's still thousands of pesos of the taxpayer's money down the drain. So masakit pa rin sa bulsa in the end.

The Apache can still do, and live through things, that the Kiowa can't

:agree: with adroth here...

most of the crew of the Apaches that crashed or shot down in Iraq survived while those of Blackhawks and Kiowas didn't.

There's a very high probability that the retired Hueys will be donated to East Timor.