Is it a belief that when you get tired of harming people ... you will start being gentle?

What are the psychological factors supporting the belief that hazing improves the cadet's mental or psychological foundation? :dontgetit:

Talamak din hazing sa PMA kasi mismo yung mga generals na ay nag-aabuso pa ng kedete.

Pero what's the reason ba for these hazings?

HAZING ELIMINATES THE INDIVIDUALITY/MAVERICK ATTITUDE OF AN INDIVIDUAL AND THUS MAKES THE PERSON CONFORM TO THE ESTABLISHMENT OR THE HERD. IT ALSO COMAPARTMENTALIZES THE PERSONALITY SO THAT A PERSON COULD HAVE A SPLIT PERSONALITY, AN ALTER THAT COULD BE EASILY BRAINWASHED AND MANIPULATED.

THAT IS PROVEN BY PSYCHOLOGISTS/INTERROGATION/MIND-CONTROL SPECIALISTS IN INTERNET SITES AND NOT NEW! and it does not just happens in military institutions but in mafias, fraternities, crime gangs teen-aged gangs, POWs, prisons, revolutionary movements etc....Just look at kampanyang Ahos series as one proof.

ALSO EMPLOYED BY COMMUNISTS WHO ARE MADE TO BELIEVE IN THE DOCTRINE OF DIALECTICAL MATERIALISM[DENIES THAT THERE IS NO SUPREME BEING THAT GIVES ORDER TO THE UNIVERSE] AND THUS THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS SINCE THERE are NO MORAL STANDARDs OR HUMAN RIGHTS!

JUST USE SEARCH ENGINES TO LOOK FOR THESE SITES

CORRECTION:

DIALECTICAL MATERIALISM[A COMMUNIST DOCTRINE]-DENIES THAT THERE IS A SUPREME BEING THAT GIVES ORDER TO NATURE AND THE UNIVERSE AND THUS JUSTIFIES THE ABSENCE OF HUMAN RIGHTS. JUST LOOK AT MAO, STALIN, KIM ILSUNG, POL POT AND JOMA SISON'S KAMPANYANG AHOS.
-IT IS THE OPPOSITE OF METAPHYSICS.

THAT IS WHY COMMUNIST EMPLOY HAZING.

I can agree with that...

....but the deaths.

Is it also a part of the process?

Another case similar to that of collateral damage?

Or is it being abused?

THAT'S A DIFFERENT THING. :exactly:

Ofcourse its EVIL! Even in ROTC cadets in universitiesit happens. I have lots of ROTC officer friends. Even in Boy Scout Training!

i have posted an article before on how the son of gen. Abat was hazed in the PMA, but it is rather too soft in the detail. I like posting articles that give horrible deatails of human suffering!

The victim of hazing tends to vent his anger to lower ranking people in the organization.

If anyone does not know this. You may not have gone to college..

I too understand that.

But what can you say about the deaths?

That's way too far. :nono:

Oh sorry. I didnt get that quick enough.

But could you elaborate your point on this? :armygrin:

All of us know that their are casualties which resulted from hazing that were not done right.

Might wanna read this one.

http://pdff.sytes.net/index.php?showtopic=2093&st=0&#last

hazing or any form of maltreatment is not sanctioned by the academy. specific provisions of the CCAFPR and the CCPB provides punishments for any act of maltreatment as defined in the regulation. this can be a ground for suspension or separation from the academy.

Hazing had existed for so long I cannot remember. Suspension/ separation were merely a part of the regulation but nothing more.

We are so imaginative, during those times, a hanger, as simple as is can create nightmares amongst. :thumb:

Hazing let us admit is a part of the system, of the discipline ( told/ untold ) that when we passed the hazing scenarios. We are thrilled to do it to those expectant and feel the uproar of our pride, that's hazing. :fire:

Hazing when done right, strengthens brotherhood.

When it is done wrong.... it turns any man into beast who recognizes anyone as its enemy!

The Korean recruit massacred his own fellows because he firmly believed that those he murdered ... deserved that punishment. :armywink:

Hazing is a form of abuse promulgating the authority and superiority of the higher class cadets.

This will not only affect the cadets phsically but also mentally, and this will go with them when they graduate up to the time they serve with the military.

The effects are abuses committed against the public whom they have sworn to protect.

It's just like an abused child who can become an abusive adult.

Hazing as I mentioned before can also be done in so many ways. It's not just the mere stories we've read or heard. One can just basically make you do anything that is meant to physically hurt or even mentally degrade a person.

My best reminder when dealing with such cases is to merely ask the golden rule as a guide.

PMMA President, others charged with hazing

PMMA President RADM Virginio Aris and seven other school officials have been charged before the Sandigan Bayan with violations of the Anti-hazing Law for the death of an 18 year old probationary midshipman during orientation rites at the PMMA campus in 2001.

The orientation, however proved too much for the 18 year old Fernando Balidoy Jr.. He collapsed and PMMA physician pronounced him dead only a day after he reported at the PMMA due to cardio-respiratory arrest.

But an autopsy later conducted by the PNP Crime Lab showed that he died from massive pulmonary hemorrhage. Further examination revealed the he also sustained injuries to his kidneys, spleen and pancreas.
-----
Not in the PMA, but seems to be the practice in all academies. :nono:

The Philippine Star, 09 Sep 2005
The Manila Bulletin, 09 Sep 2005

Like what i've said, when it is not done right it either kills people or turn them into beast later on.

There are a lot of psychos out there, ... taking every opportunity to hurt people just for fun.

These people are sick. :bs:

They are cowards who can only pick those who are defenseless.

tsk tsk tsk.

Another soul was wasted.

For what reason?

Brotherhood?

Yeah, right! :armyroleyes:

I believe PMA has finally taken the bull by the horns when it comes to hazing. The fourthclass system ensures that 99% of hazing of the sadistic, physical and inhuman form takes place in two places. The cadet mess hall and the cadet barracks. The solution was simple. Separate the plebes during meals. Plebes eat in their own tables, upperclassmen eat in their own tables. Same with the barracks. Each class lives and sleeps in separate barracks. Upperclasmen and plebes only mix during formations, official functions and duties.

The Fourthclass System was scrapped.

It was started last year and it seems to have worked in curbing hazing. Whether the system will produce better officers or not remains to be seen. I personally think it has pussified the academy.

Times do change, and old goats like you Pendejo will have to bow to the changing times. :devilwink:

I'd rather have pussified cadets who would turn out to be honest and competent officers rather than toughie cadets who turned out to be greedy stealing and incompetent bastards.

I hope so.

Hazing will only produce brutes and askals. It will drive away (and has driven away) the best and the brightest away from the Academy leaving only the barakos and masochists.

How can you attract the best high school kids to go to the PMA kung alam nila bugbog-sarado lang ang abot nila sa plebe year nila?

The service academies in the US and in the West have, by and large, eliminated hazing. Dapat gayahin natin sila. What we need are cadets who do well in the academics especially math, science and English not goons who only excel in hazing.

We have had hazing in the PMA since after WWII and maybe even before. Look at the officers it has produced. Look at the PMA now.

:agree:

Mabuti the PMA realized their mistake eventually.

:thumb:

The plebes are billeted in the Mayo Area, but there are also 8 upperclass cadets from each company that are with them, 4 1CL and 4 2CL cadets. In the mess hall, they eat at the same table as the upperclassmen. they are not segregated. The mess hall is about the only place where the 1CL and 3CL cadets can interact with the plebes. The 3CL are off-limits in the 4CL barracks, and the 1CL rarely have time to check on the plebes unless it's official business.

Have partially watched last night GMA 7's I-witness's topic, "War shocked". There was an old retired colonel, a PMA graduate, I think Class '62 a mistah of former AFP Chief Abadia. He was one of the so-called "casualties" of military life. There he narrated what he believed are partially the caused of his illness. One is how it started at the Academy with the physical and psychological pressures he endured in his cadet's life including hazing. His war experience. And his failure in civilian life.

true true....

the myth that hazing makes you a macho man is like saying death row convicts make good soldiers.....

it takes a lot of guts to stand up and fight this thing.... and i think that's more "macho" than bullying helpless and defenseless underclassmen.....

For you anti-hazing wussies, try joining the French Foreign Legion:

http://www.purdueexponent.org/index.php/mo...ue/action/Artic

No hazing inside PMA: commandant

:thumb:

full story

I suggest that instead of hazing, PMAers vent out all their violent nature, anger and frustrations during taekwondo, karate, arnis, judo, aikido and other martial arts tournaments. Or go to Hongkong and join bloodsport.Doon, no holds bar o kung meron man, mas matindi ang sapak ng roundhouse kaysa sa itapon sa swimming pool early in the morning at freezing temperature o padulasin sa branch ng tree that scraped the skin of a plebe. You can be all you can during tournaments!

i agree with Flipzi, hazing when done right promotes brotherhood. I suppose that was the ideal concept of "hazing" in military life. Problem is, upperclassmen in the academy or even senior officers in the active service tend to have this "superiority" complex by virtue of seniority. There are times when military hazing were done wantonly without considering the physical safety of recepients. After several deaths caused by hazing, it is now forbidden in the academy but still there are instances where it is being practiced perhaps in a subtle way. sTill, hazing is a part in military life. I think it is already embedded in one's "military mind". Even in the active service, a soldier is welcomed by way of "reception" (punch in the stomach) if he transfers from one unit to another. They dont call it hazing, aren't they? huh!

:fire:

they call it corrective measures. bwahahaha

hazing is a preparation for field duties. psychologically and physically. It separates the weakling from those who are stable under pressure.

the hazing you get inside the academy is rather minute compared to what will happen if ENEMY of the state catches you.

If your tolerance for pain and your attitude for pain is low, The tendency is you will disclose sensitive information.

And I agree, those power trippers and sadists should be dealt with accordingly. But we still need them to prepare those weaklings.

We do have classes for hazing as part of the curriculum. It is called biology (which actually if you dont sleep in class tells you the do's and don't when hitting someone how hard and where to hit. those who slept it out were either discharged or turned back.

Noki


:sniper:

We have a tough training program for plebes (cocc) and up to first class year pa.
Hazing became a necessary evil to weed out dead woods and to instill discipline.
Hazing became so tough that other fraternity initiation rites became nowhere near plebehood.

Related threads:

http://pdff.sytes.net/index.php?showtopic=2094
http://pdff.sytes.net/index.php?showtopic=2028

Disagree.

Sadly, hazing doesn't only weed out deadwoods, it also weeds out potentially good officers who aren't stupid enough to go through it. What is left are officers who might be physically capable, but who are mentally and morally incapable.

There are a multitude of other ways to instill discipline and hazing isn't one of them. Hazing only fosters sadistic mentality where the only consolation of those who went through it is to be able to get a chance to do it when they ascend in class and have lowerclassmen.

:headbang: One thing that give them the reason to do HAZING practice sa PMA or in the PNPA is for the Brotherhood...daw! this is just what i've heard from people who knows praternity hazing....and I think this is also thesame sa PMA and PNPA...Brotherhood. even though the guy who they abused out of breath beacuse of pain and muscle bleeding.

Hope they Stope this none sense tradition.

:pushup:

I disagree...

Look around you. Even western countries, does not sanctio this kind of method of training. There are a lot of ways to weed out the unwanted officers. But not hazing, even our great General Douglas McArthur was a victim of hazing. By the time he became West Point Supt. He made sure to abolish hazing! :crawling: Peace!

the bully cadets who did the most beatings are the among the most ineffective officers in the afp

mga bok, try nyo., informal survey sa mga kilala nyo

Those who engage in hazing have their own insecurities. As they saw it in a movie, the bullied became a war hero. Forrest Gump.

Go to Blood Sport in Hongkong and join the tournament if you want to hurt somebody and attempt to prove something to others and yourselves. Three months in the PMA were all I can bear. Half of the upperclassmen where all ganging up on me because of my hard-to-correct stooping posture. They even had my thighs scraped by ordering me to slide in an acacia tree and threw me in the pool early morning. Everybody is forgiven. See all of you in the trenches! :armyLol:

one more thing, most bully upperclassmen were found out to be insecure in their sexuality, medyo confused yung iba thats why they resorted to extreme beating and cruel punishments to prove their masculinity, day

case in point, a certain Army colonel who was known to be a real badass during his cadet days is a closet bading, another humored bakla and cruel ayer is now Marine captain

can you guess who they are miss maldita?

sa NCR sya naka assign ngayon ang colonel

i am not an advocate of hazing nor maltreatment - (also, they are not the same)

a cadet will not be hazed if he can cope up to the level of expectation of his upperclassmen. the senior class cadets have undergone thru the same transformation (civ to mil life) and knows it can be done.

the seniorclass cadets have the duty to transform the plebe into a cadet, he has to try everything to teach this person on the matters /manners/way of life of a cadet which is very much different from a civilian life. each move has its reasons.

if the seniorclass cadet have exhausted all his means to teach the person and still the person refuses to learn , "mato" in cadets lingo / OR is a very slow learner , then he has no choice but to put pressure on the plebe in order for him to absorb the information or knowledge being taught to him.

this is when , sometimes, the pressure turns to hazing, when the senior loses control of himself and inflicts bodily harm to the "mato" plebe. this is then not acceptable . A cadet found guilty of hazing is discharged from the academy, no ifs nor buts.

maltreatment is a totally different subject

I agree on that guys, they are bullies who just wanted to cover-up their personal insecurities.

as if squeezing the scrotum of a not-so-bright plebe makes him smarter :armytwisted:

and its still happening up to this day of supposed enlightenment at good ole PMA...

ewwww....my balls shrunk reading this :drunk: