If we have the budget, what do you think will be the most ideal modern assault rifle for our Army troopers?

The Steyr AUGA3 will be a good weapon for our troops. Malaysia is now producing the rifles under license so we can get it from them cheaper I think.

if we can afford it :lol:

That rifle looks like a toy gun. :lol: :lol:

The XM-8 is way too expensive. If that will be approved as new standard weapon for US forces, then we can always go for their surplus M4s and M16A2s .

How about this one?


Stone, how about you, what's your choice? :D

If the Israelis can do that we can do that here too - ferfrans has done a good job with their SOAR variant. B)

I prefer this:



The H&K G36 Assault rifle. H&K makes truly reliable and sturdy firearms, as evident in the popular MP5 SMG and M4 (their version, not the Colt's) carbine. A good choice for any armed forces.

More info at: Modern Firearms

BTW, the Steyr is NOT a good choice. Australia and New Zealand are seriously considering replacing their Steyrs due to problems with the rifle. One of which is the tendency of the rifle's plastic components to melt when the rifle is fired on full auto for extended periods of time.

More info regarding Oz' and Kiwi's Steyr at: http://afwweb.orcon.net.nz/defencesolutions.html

i know your army is already using ultimax lmgs we have also a better option than steyr and m16 the sar21 it looks like steyr but much durable :)

Correction there. The Ultimax lost out to the FN Minimi. Whatever Ultimax that is still in the AFP inventory are most likely evaluation models and only a small number at that.

CHOICE A: HK G36 Rifle



My next choice would be the HK M4/16 rifle, but Colt is acting like an ass and suing HK for coming up with a better receiver. <_<

Welcome to PDFF RDC.

I thought HK improved the M4/M16 with Colt approval. :o

the sig 550 series


http://world.guns.ru/assault/as25-e.htm

Its not yet final that the XM-8 will be the US Army's nexgen rifle, it faces competition from the new Barrett M486 firing the extra lethal 6.8mm Remington SPC round.

new ammo always make difficult supply adaptability, 5.56mm is very abundant while if changing to 6.8mm will present compatibility difficulties :wow:

Some sectors in the US military are calling for ammo change after they found the hard way that the 5.56mm failed ithem in a number of firefights in Iraq and Afghanistan.

magandang umaga mga kababayan!

I agree with iron dragon

the AFP should look into the new 6.8 x 43mm SPC round.. the US made a mistake in going with the smaller 5.56.. not enough power (i know wht u gna say...try getting shot with one).. but the US knew about this way back in vietnam when they found that the smaller 5.56 severely lacks in jungle fighting (compared to the AK rounds) .. i've seen a tv program on TLC (cant remember when) that its so underpowered that even blades of grass and twigs are enuff to cause the bullet to to lose momentum.. ever read Black Hawk Down?.. whre one guy was saying how he had to shoot a guy so many times... for the US its just an issue of economics.. they do have tons of rifle and rounds in 5.56.. besides NATO will not be happy.. specially the british since they've wanted the 7 x 43mm rnd in the first place but had to give in to the US..

As for current rifles, my vote goes to the G36 :fire:
its german designed, lightweight and (what more can i say?) better designed than the M16 family.. hence the basis for the lower OICW..

Any chance we can license produce the G36 chambered for the 6.8 rnd? (my pipe dream, pasensiya na po :rolleyes: )

The AFP can't have that many 5.56 rnds in stock as well as magazines.. we are always begging the US for rifles ryt? 30,000 the last time i heard.. whatever stock the AFP might have would be expended in a couple of years (5-6 yrs?) if they start developing the rifle and cartridge now and stop stocking up on 5.56..

One Shot, One Kill

5.56 mm very abundant and widely use if changed to 6.8mm will incur logistical problems in case of sustained combat.

Singa Lion I do take into account that 5.56 is very much abundant.. what i do say is that the 6.8 is the future caliber of assault rifles.. and i thnk the AFP is in a very good position to start adopting it in the next few years. I would give my arguments as the following:

a) i do not believe that the AFP has that many 5.56 rnds in its stockpile. At the most it has 5-6 yrs stock for any sustained combat ( this is a guess and in no way can be close to the truth, anybody here would know the ryt estimate? ;) )

b) this stocks will be expended (military operations, exercises, training etc) provided no huge numbers are restocked

So for instance, the AFP started developing or buying 6.8 chambered rifle NOW and stop stockpiling that many 5.56 rounds, the number of 5.56 rounds stockpiled will dwindle to the point when:

c)the M16 rifles that the AFP ryt now is getting close to its end of life (barrel wear etc) and therefore will be relegated to second line units, use for spares or junked

d)The AFP never have that many M16 rifles in the first place (actually, some units i do believe still use 7.62 chambered M14's) and that whatever the US gives the AFP in terms of surplus rifles wont last long since they could be 20 yrs old by the time we got them

So, since the AFP do need new rifles and need to buy new rounds for stockpile, why not start to look into the 6.8 route now as oppose to later? I believe that the 6.8 round is better suited as a basis for a family of rifles that has an assault, light machinegun, carbine, medium machinegun and even SMG (like the G36 family)

BTW, my second choice is the SAR-21. I've read glowing reviews about it and since its singapore made, any chance we can get a discount? :bounce:

hahaha and other us sectors are pushing for new ammo called 6.5mm grendel instead of 6.8mm --- the more the merrier :rollinlol:

>>>>
The 6.5 Grendel is a new cartridge developed, manufactured, and distributed by Alexander Arms of Radford, Virginia, USA. It is designed to give AR15-type rifles an intermediate cartridge capability, making them a multipurpose weapon effective from 0 to 1000 yards. The 6.5 Grendel is an evolution of the 6.5 PPC, first created by Dr. Lou Palmisano when he developed his famous 22 PPC and 6mm PPC, which dominate the sport of benchrest shooting competition.

Competition shooter Arne Brennan of Houston, Texas, saw the potential in Palmisano’s 6.5 PPC wildcat. He had a custom AR15 built to shoot it and used high ballistic-coefficient bullets to take it out to 1000 yards. Roughly at the same time, Alexander Arms was experimenting with the 6.5 PPC for use in AR15s. By chance, the two met and compared notes and began to cooperate to produce the resulting cartridge, the 6.5 Grendel. Alexander Arms contracted with the Lapua company of Finland to finalize the specifications (Lapua engineers lengthened the shoulder and shortened the neck) and to produce the brass. Brass and loaded ammunition are now available from Alexander Arms’ network of distributors.

Case length is 39mm. Case head diameter is .445". Case capacity is 35.0 grains of water and about 32.5 grains powder. The cartridge was developed to maximize performance in the AR15 platform. In that role, magazine-length loads are limited to 2.255" OAL. However, in single-round loading or in a bolt-action rifle, OAL can be extended with bullets up to 130 grains as far as 2.420".

more info here...

Well then :D , it just shows how inadequate the current 5.56 standards are.. but ofcourse some people will prefer one over the other..specially in the US where defense economics rule.. I do think remington has the inside track being...well for being a company named remington :bounce:

ang gusto ko sa rifle

yung magaling at di

madaling masira

kya mag G36 tau!

:bounce:

:D Sounds like that irritating TV ad for a bath soap.

but then isn't alexander arms a us company too :o

..like i said, defense economics... ofcourse some political and military types would recommend one over the other? why?.... well money$$$$$$$... theres a lot of money involved in this... whoever wins will be handed cash in buckets.. whre does US military personnel work after their retirement from service?.... defense contractors.. civil defense companies etc.. thats why...Politics just doesnt happen in RP....it happens in the US, too

and on what authority are you basing your statements when in fact military procurement in the us is quite different than in the philippines, the defense contractor who wins is the one who meets all the criteria stipulated by the dod not just because it has a lot of connection among politicians and generals - which is more likely a philippine scenario

quite true.. :D If I remember correctly.. and pls someone correct me if I'm wrong.. US Congressional and Senate Defense Committee (or is it just Congressional? :unsure: ) approves the defense budgets and allocates exactly how much goes to what items.. item by item... so for example.. the Army will be allocated $50 million to buy new rifles and $50 million to buy new tanks, but they need to chop $100 million of the budget and so they have to close a couple of bases and buy only 20 planes instead of 40 this year from a company in ThisState.. so what if the Republican Congressman from WhatState finds out that the base they want to close is in his backyard.. and the Congressman from ThisState finds out the US Army doesnt want to buy from his state all because the army needs new rifles and more tanks? what if it happens to be election time?.. what are the chances that they will vote out the acquisition of new rifles and new tanks in favor of buying more planes and keeping the bases open? Politics... politicians are politicians everywhere...

Another one...Why is Rumsfeld having a hard time getting what he wants, not that i have an opinion on the matter (from the military (buy less weapons, trim the military etc etc)... Take the Crusader SPH for instance... why is he getting such a hard time killing the project thats costing milions when the Paladin SPH is more than adequate for the army's needs?.. Or why is the airforce ordering F-22's when no current adversarial airforce in the world can match US air supremacy.. why is the navy ordering new submarines (again) when the latest submarines they've ordered is not even a decade old? Why does this same submarine being built by no less than three defense companies in different states?... the answer is, they are spreading the money around because no congressman/woman will readily approve a defense item if his or her state doesn't get some benefit from it.. for example will a congressman from Virginia approve a new submarine that the navy wants to buy from a company building in New Jersey when he knows that Newport News in Norfolk can make the same submarine? sometimes its just quid pro quo..

Now, Im only saying the above to illustrate how hard or easy it is for politicians and defense companies to influenced how things are decided in the government...

Also, if you want to make serious money, be a defense lobbyist in Washington (actually, be a lobbyist for anything).. I've read a piece in Time Magazine about this not too long ago and they spend like crazy on politicians...parties, charities, fund raisers etc... you want to take a guess for what? :bounce:

Now, my first point is politicians are politicians everywhere... i tend to distrust them ...two, you cannot say for certain that politicians cannot be influenced by technical specs alone... it doesnt happen blatantly in the US as it does in RP but politicking do happen...

The XM-8 will most likely be chosen over the Barrett and the 5.56mm retained.

For special purpose units, there's always the Stoner Rifle 47 and that 6.8mm Barrett or Grendel to choose from .


:beer:

in the end, the US Army might come to decide that replacing their guns and ammo might just be too costly... the same scenario happened in the 80's... where the US Army we're looking for a replacement rifle and none was found to justify the billions it would take for them to get rid of the M16 and the 5.56... Land Warrior might only be for the special forces in the near future... Hey I like the idea of Stoner 47.. kill ur enemy and then take his bullets :bounce:

I think the ideal new rifle for the Philippine Army is G-36 made by HK

G36 with CMag
and G36K carried by UK cops...

hey cool pic dancing fire!... this one i dont have in my collection :rolleyes:

I wonder what are the chances of the AFP getting the G36 as their main assault rifle.. anybody from the service here guys?.. i really want to hear from servicemen themselves... it cost soemthing like $900 a piece though :blink:

nil...that will sum up to Php50,000.00 per gun

AK-101 or AK-102, anyone??? :rolleyes:

Here's the better variant of the AK israeli -

Bofors AK5B (Scoped version)

Just give me this and ill do the rest

I'll go for an M16 with upgraded gas system (or maybe gas pistons) just like the M14. Failure due to fouling as someone told me is the most common equipment failure in the field.

As for a caliber upgrade? 6.8mm SPC vs the 5.56mm? the 6.8mm have a 1/2 inch advantage at 400m over the 5.56 and 3 inch in windage, but 80% of the AFP's engagements are below 50 meters, what is the net benefit, extermely minimal. I would rather go for an upgrade and pour in more pesos on marksmanship training. The AFP arsenal should upgraded for reliability and efficiency.

philippines after marcos really blew away some indegenous weapons projects after aquino came to power. project santa barbara, cancellation of licesed-production of PADC aircraft and the selling and closing of ELISCO. ELISCO had the manufacturing rights (not license-production) to the AR-18/AR-180 rifle. the AR-18 was adopted by the japanese defense forces as the type-89, singapore as the SA--80 and yes in germany, the HK G-36 is based on the AR-18. the philippines because of problems of the license-production of the M-16a1, began looking for replacements as early as the 80's. including in the deal for the philippines manufacturing rights was armalite and sterling of the UK to help set up machinery in the elisco plant. but everything that had to do with marcos was deemed evil and bad, elisco's manufacturing rights were sold and its factory padlocked. no use crying over spilled milk. but the philippine military depending on the US, the M-16 is going to be in the philippine military for a long time. the PA in conjunction of the PMC, evaluated upgrades with local company floro, for upgrades of M-16 rifles including reequipping them to -A2 standards. this was around the time 30,000 refurbished USdonated M-16s came so nothing came out of that.

the philippine army and PMC recently bought M-249 SAWs as its squad level weapon. the PMC however prefered the singaporean Ultimax, a shipment of which was bought in the 80s. but the army however won out. lets talk about light (SAW) and medium machine guns. which do u think would have been better>

i would like to see the south african SS-77 machine gun. it basically performs both light and medium machie gun roles. the SS-77 fires the 7.62NATO round, but it also comes with a kit that allows it to fire 5.56NATO ammo known as the miniSS. both a platoon and squad weapon.

The PMC was right in choosing the Ultimax but the Army won out because of the usual shady deals. :grrr:

kindly read my first post on this topic as I gave one important reason for the 6.8 SPC... namely that the 5.56 is an extremely "light" bullet for jungle use...