What are your dream aircraft for PAF?

Nice to see our hotshot pilots fly F16s or Gripens.
Blackhawk transport helos too ...

Su-30s and Mirages for me.

A squadron of these based in palawan is ok for me :lol:

:lol: The Chinese in the Spratlys will be totally amazed if they ever SEE those stealth fighters over their bases.

:lol: :lol: :lol: stealth fighters!!??
its no longer dreaming, its hallucination bro :lol:

Something not too far in our imagination.

For air defense and air interdiction roles, the F16 (or the Gripen) in air defense configuration. 4 squadrons worth (?)

For land attack and sea strike roles, the F16 (or the Gripen) in attack configuration. Another 4 squadrons worth (?)

For maritime patrol, choose one from the thousands in the market.

For general purpose helos, more of those venerable Hueys (albeit upgraded ones). You can never have too many Hueys.

More C130s (upgraded ones, too). C130s are a very versatile aircraft. Can be used for anything from general cargo and logistics to air-to-air refueling to attack and combat roles. There is no such thing as too many C130s.

Get AWACs planes, Hawkeyes or Embraer Erieyes.

As you can see, the number of different aircraft types is small. The lesser the number of aircraft types to maintain, the lower the budget needed for it. Much better if the aircraft types have common spare parts, right?

Good dream PAF ORBAT aldon, just right for PAF!
I think the Gripen will be a better choice for us than the F16.

Yeah, I personally like the Gripens but the F16 is cheaper than the Gripen especially if it is 2nd hand. Though Saab says that the Gripen is cheaper to maintain in the long run. So although the startup cost in acquiring Gripens is quite high, you'll save in the long run because of its low-cost maintenance (according to Saab, that is).

How about if the PAF look into the FC-1 that Pakistan and China will be producing jointly. Its a fly by wire single seat fighter with full BVR engagment capability. Cheap too.

The Fairchild Republic YA-10B N/AW Thunderbolt II



It's a two-seater!

yaikks!! :blink: ugly plane

seriously...is see a different cannon on it, is it better than that of the origina A10?

i'm dreaming of the PAF having two squadrons of F-15E Strike Eagles (18-20 aircrafts per squadron), similar to the Israeli F-15Is...

hehehehehe! :lol:

Hello everyone,

Hmmmm, dream lineup for the PAF? Here goes my list:

Air defense / Maritime strike - FA-18s
Ground Attack - Harrier AV8B/Gr.7
Trainers - Tucano/ BaE Hawk

Transport - C-130J
Light Transport - CN-235
Tankers - Converted A300s/converted C-130s
AWACS - E2 (for now)

Maritime reconnaissance - Shin Meiwa flying boats

GP Helicopters - Sikorsky UH-60s/Mil-8s
Heavy lift Helicopters - CH-47s
Observation - MD-520

the PAF is a long ways from getting most of those aircraft. the airforce if u havent noticed is still trained( if u count older pilots of the past still serving) on at the most 70's-era fighter technology (f-8). making a big jump to Mirage-2000-5, JSF, F-15, would be a big leap. the PAF at first needs to train its pilots with technology they never had. (closest thing to laser-guided or smart munitions were "bullpups" from the F-8s) . we wouldn't be able to operate 3rd or 4th generation fighters to their full capabilities anyways since most PAF airbases need to refurbish their runways and make hangars hardened and more changes needed. havent you guys noticed that the PAF with old fighter aircraft, has a fairly new trainer force in the form of new/overhauled SF-260s, S.211s. this was because in the aquino administration, which saw alot of its assets destroyed/damaged beyond repair by coup-attempts, wanted to rebuild the airforce. the first thing they did were to buy new trainers, which originally was supposed to have been: S.211 for basic jet trainer; and Hawk100 for advanced jet trainer/LIFT aircraft. money has always been a problem and only the S.211s part of the plan were purchased (in a counter-trade deal with italy for women's underwear). because of budgetary restrictions and a hightening counter-insurgency war in the 90s, the PAF has had to abandon most of its fighter acquisition programs (believe it or not, the PAF wanted F-15s as far back as the late-70s to replace its F-5 A/B fleet, but had to settle with F-8s instead) , and spend money on COIN planes instead (OV-10s and MG-520s to replace AT-28s).

during this whole ordea in the cory administrationl, the PAF made some pretty bad decisions that it is reeling from today. things such as the retiring of the C-47/AC-47 fleet which provided short/medium range transport capability to the PAF, as well as the gunship role of converted AC-47s. the PAF wanted to re-engine these with turbo-prop engines instead of piston engines, which used more expensive fuel. but somebody in the government decided that re-engining these was not worth it, and as a result, the PAF C-130 fleet is overburdened with transport roles, the islander fleet cannot take as much load as C-47s, and transport of troops to high intensity areas, has put the Philippine Navy incharge with transporting troops, since C-130s are undergoing overhaul/refurbishment inPAF maintenance wing, malaysia and in the recently opened Lockheed Martin maintenance facility in villamor, most of which are paid by our dear uncle. the retiring of the C-47 fleet has left a mark on the PAF today. another of the PAF's mistakes were the abandoning and removal of many PAF radar. this was done because they were perceived as obsolete compared to current radars and were put out of commision. those that remained were radars of airbases, as well as mobile radars that are transportable. there was a deal with italian company that was to build an integrated radar system for the PAF a while back, but this has been canceled because of irregularities i.e. currupt practices.

in the 90's the PAF had started the AFP Modernization L:aw,, and no big steps have been taken to improve PAF fighter and airdefenses. the PAF has gotten deals for KFIRS all C.2, C.7 , and C.10or 2000 versions, MirageF.1, F-5E/, non have materialized. as early as 1999 when the modernization plan was clearly in the backburners, the PAF created its interim plan, which would buy fighters for the PAF that would give PAF pilots the ability to handle technology before more advanced fighters come. it was supposed to be 187-24 fighters in the form of F-5E/F, miragef.1, kfirs,etc... and 12 surface/maritime strike aircraft, which would serve as attack aircraft as well as LIFT roles. and earlier this year, the PAF has been accepting bids for 12 "surface strike aircraft" , whether this is the aircraft in the interim plan nobody knows, but the PAF has said that it had P10-15 billion dollars to spend on these 12 aircraft. for the PAF pilots that are trained and have flight hours are important which is why s.211s and SF-260s are constantly flying (more and more in combat missions) . also the PAF received as much as 5 but atleast 2 F-5Bs from South Korea this year, the PAF has also reportedly been making more of the original and past-donated F-5B models more and more available for training. goes to show that the PAF cares for training a newer crop of fighter pilots.

the basic fact is that the government does not have the money to focus on external defenses at this moment. the government has decided to focus on the internal problems first, which is why COIN aircraft is the focus. just remember that investors are needed in the philippines to make the economy better. but investors will not come unless the internal security situation improves.

Cheap at 9 to 15 million US per copy ;)

That is if China will sell us the FC1.

uhmmm... with China being a potential enemy of the Republic of the Philippines, i guess it is a WRONG IDEA to buy Chinese-made weapons...

i would rather get Python IV- and Derby- armed Kfir 2000s from Israel than those Chinese F-16/Lavi copycats...

a photo of an Ecuadorian Kfir CE (Kfir 2000):

:D israeli, counter this, my dream orbat for your PhAF - possible with only few us-made systems :bounce:

-Su-35 Super Flanker(AA, Anti-Shipping, Strike, SEAD/DEAD, CAS, Reconnaissance, Mini-AWACS, etc)(Note: with N0-11M Bars radar, Kopyo-F tail radar & Al-35F engines)
Cost: 35mn>based on what it was offered to Brazil
WOI: AA: R-73M2, R-77M-PD(Secondary is R-27EM/R-27AE & R-27P), R-172/R-37M - Ash: Kh-35U, Yakhont-M/BrahMos-A - AR: Kh-25MP, Kh-31PD, Kh-58U - AS: Kh-25(ML, MR, MD), Kh-29(L, T, TE), KAB-500(L, KR, S), KAB-1500(L-Pr, L-F), Kh-59M, Yakhont-M/BrahMos, Kh-SD, Vikhr, Hermes, S-25L, Rockets, Machine Guns, Dumb Bombs etc.

-S-400 Triumf(Long Range Air Defense, Limited Anti-Missile Defence)(Note: with being linked to Kolchuga anti-stealth radar system)
Cost: 150mn for each battery(a battery consists of 4-6 launchers, command and control vehicle, a radar vehicle, additional vehicle for reloads and maintenance equipment)(Note: Each S-400 launcher can cover an area of 800x800km)>The S-300PMU1/2/3 costs around 100/battery(based on what various countries paid for), so it?s safe to assume the S-400 will cost much more and probably around 150mn

-Il-76MF Candid(Transport/Cargo, Airlift, Airdrop, etc)(Note: for Civilian and Military use & CFMI CFM56-5C4 engines)
Cost: 30mn>quoted by factory in Uzbekistan

-Il-78M Midas(Aerial Refueling)(Note: with CFMI CFM56-5C4 engines
Cost: 25mn>which is what India paid for

-Erieye fitted on Il-76MF(AEW&C, Airspace Management, Border Surveillance & Control, SIGINT, ELINT, COMINT, etc)
Cost: 130mn>30mn for Il-76MF airframe + 100mn for Erieye radar & modification(Greece paid 125mn for EMB-145H-ERJ145 airframe=100mn)

-S-80GP(Light Utility/Transport/Cargo, Airdrop, Passenger Transport, VIP, MEDEVAC, etc)(Note: for Civilian and Military use, operated by all branches)
Cost: 6mn>quoted by Sukhoi officials

-S-80PT(Light Utility/Transport, Airdrop, Passenger Transport, VIP, MEDEVAC, Maritime Patrol, Drug Interdiction, COIN, C/SAR & Coordination, Anti-Shipping, Strike, Mine Laying, Multi-Engine & Navigational Training, etc)(Note: operated by all branches)
Cost: 6.5mn>quoted by Sukhoi officials
WOI: AA: R-73M2 - Ash: Kh-35U, Mines - AS: Kh-25(ML, MR, MD), Kh-29(L, T, TE), Vikhr, Hermes, Rockets, Machine Guns, Dumb Bombs etc.
Comment: This light versatile transport is very cheap to buy and maintain and can be armed to perform all kinds of missions.

-NH-90 NFH(ASW, Anti-Shipping, Transport/Cargo, Drug Interdiction, SPECOPS, SAR, Mine Laying, etc)(Note: operated by the Navy)
Cost: 30mn>based on what various countries are paying for.
WOI: Ash: MARTE MK2-S, AGM-84D Harpoon/AM 39 Exocet - ASW: MU-90 Torpedoes/Stingray Torpedoes/Mk46, 50 Torpedoes, Mines, Depth Bombs
Comment: One of the most sophisticated ASW Helicopter in the World. Although expensive, it is capable and would be bought in smaller numbers just to serve on ships.

-Yak-130(AA, Anti-Shipping, Strike, SEAD/DEAD, CAS, Border Patrol, COIN, Drug Interdiction, Advanced Training/LIFT, Reconnaissance, etc)(Note: with Kopyo-F radar, HMS & IFR probe optionally)
Cost: 13mn>The baseline Yak-130 should around 10-12mn, this refined one should cost around 13mn with the radar and extra weapons integration
WOI: AA: R-73M2, R-77M-PD(Secondary is R-27EM/R-27AE & R-27P) - Ash: Kh-35U - AR: Kh-25MP, Kh-31PD - AS: Kh-25(ML, MR, MD), Kh-29(L, T, TE), KAB-500(L, KR, S), Vikhr, Hermes, S-25L, Rockets, Machine Guns, Dumb Bombs etc.

-RG-8A Condor/Schweizer SA2-37B Glider(Primary/Basic Training, Limited SAR, Observation/Scout, COIN Detection & Monitoring, etc)
Cost: 500000>based on what Peru paid for
Comment: Although this combo is much better for training needs, certainly much less combat capable. The Yak-130 can be armed nicely for CAS and other roles while RQ-8A Glider will provide basic training to pilots

-1 S-400 Battery=150mn
-7 Il-76MFs=210mn
-6 Il-78Ms=150mn
-4 Il-76MF Erieyes=520mn
-7 S-80GP=42mn
-10 S-80PTs=65mn
-7 NH-90s=210mn
-25 Yak-130s=325
-50 RQ-8s=25mn
-80 Su-35s=2800
=approx 4.5bn

also optional
-RQ-4 Global Hawk(Reconnaissance, SIGINT, ELINT, Maritime Patrol, Border Surveillance & Control)(Note: operated by the Airforce & Navy)
Cost: 70mn>which is what USA paid for
OR
-MQ-9A Predator B(Reconnaissance, Limited Strike, Border Surveillance & Control)
Cost: 15mn>which is what USAF paid for
WOI: AA: FIM-92A Stinger, AIM-9X Sidewinder, AIM-120C AMRAAM - AS: AGM-114C/K Hellfire, GBU-38A 500lb JDAM, GBU-12 Paveway II, AGM-65(D, K) Maverick etc.
Comment: It?s hard to decide which one you?d really want. The Global Hawk has much better sensors, is much more expensive, can fly faster, longer and higher meanwhile the Predator is not much behind it in performance, it?s much more cost effective and can be armed with various weapons

-BrahMos(Strike, Coastal Defence)(Note: operated by Army & Navy)
Cost: Unknown
Comment: The BrahMos missile system is mounted on a mobile launcher. The launcher can fire the BrahMos missiles at range of around 300kms at land targets such as Airfields, etc while it can engage enemy surface vessels via datalink from other aircraft/vessels. The system will also be supported by a Support & Reloading vehicle.

-If you really have money to waste on more expensive aircraft like Bombers, the first one you might want to acquire is Tu-22M5
Tu-22M5(Anti-Shipping, Strike, Mine Laying, Nuclear Bombing[if any available], Limited SEAD/DEAD, Reconnaissance, etc)
Cost: unknown exactly but should not be more than 50mn
WOI: Ash: Yakhont-M/BrahMos-A, Kh-22M, Mines - AR: Kh-58U, Kh-22MP - AS: Yakhont-M/BrahMos, Kh-22M, Kh-55 & Derivatives(SM, MS, Kh-555, Kh-65), Kh-SD, Kh-101, KAB-1500(L-Pr, L-F), KAB-3000, Nuclear Weapons(if any available), Dumb Bombs etc.
AND If you have even more money, you might want to acquire the Jamming version
Tu-22M5R(Reconnaissance, Dedicated Jamming, etc)
Cost: unknown exactly but it should not be less than 15mn more than the Tu-22M5 .


With this, the PhAF will no longer be the laughing stock of Asian air forces. :thumb:

:sad2: if only not a dream

good choice superflanker but make sure pilots has good training otherwise they are shot easily like flies :D

Amateur General: you really love Russian hardware, don't you? hehehehe! :D

now assume no more assistance from the us now that the philippines has turned tail in iraq, expect the americans to deny and stop all aid for the air force and other units, the paf will already be known as the pathetic air force

Its already a pathetic air force. We don't need an American telling us what we already know for a long time. And frankly, I'll be glad if you Americans will stop whatever middling aid you give us (middling as compared to, say, Israel or Pakistan or Turkey or...). Maybe then we'll realize that America is not the "be all and end all" of our lives.

rright aldon they give more military aid to pakistan who have no troops in iraq and even reluctant to fight alqeda in pakistan :crazy:

We will manage thank you ;)

The government won't risk buying/leasing Kfirs directly from Israel even we have the money (its a good aircraft but what are the chances)... unless its from another country... don't bother with anything made in china... combat boots, toothpastes.. okei fine! :grrr: but frontline planes, tanks or ships? NO!

pardon my ignorance abt military matters, but why?

World Politics and the politics of hate.. Arabs, Muslims hate anything that has anything to do with Israel.. I used to date a Muslim girl and she won't even drink Pepsi because she claims its owned by a Jew :crazy: .. (trust me, she said those words exactly) We have thousands of OFW's in the ME.. do you really think Arabs will take it nicely if we get cozy with the Israelis and give them our money, thereby supporting the Nation of Israel? And using those same Jewish planes against their own Moro brethrens? Its still a fact that OFW's account for billions of dollars to the treasury.. specially needed now that RP is almost bankrupt :headbang: The ME is still the most accesible OFW country for Filipinos.. Oh, they could just as easily close their countries to our OFWs as a "protest" over any deal that we might make with anything Jewish.. The Philippine Government wont dare court that problem... not with a ten foot pole.. :nono:

If we do really want to get our hands on some Kfirs.. perhaps we could buy/lease it off another *friendly* country (with extra commissions, ofcourse).. hardly a practical solution but an option nonetheless.. we might as well steal their blueprints and build it ourselves :bounce:

Good idea - lease purchase Kfirs from Ecuador :thumb:

My dream aircraft(MRF) for PAF would be F-15e strike inderdiction dual role fighter or F-18e super hornet..For surface attack role, A-10 thnuderbolt..

I dream of a Hornet ;)

my personal choices for the next multi-role fighter (MRF) of the Philippine Air Force:


JAS 39 Gripen:



Mirage 2000-9:



Eurofighter Typhoon:



F-16C/D Block 52:



F-15E Strike Eagle:



Su-30MK Flanker:




* i liked the F/A-18C/D Hornet but since they are out of production and replaced by F/A-18E/F Super Hornet (which is, in my opinion, of "less quality" than the C/D), i have deleted the Hornet from my list.


peace! ;)

Air Superiorty (Interception) -
F-14D Super Tomcats

Together with its phoenix missiles and AMRAAM's, This is one of the best long range air superiority fighters available.

Fighter / Attack (Interception Support and Ground Attack)
F-16D Falcon

Not as fast and less attack range than the F-14 yet the Falcon is more than a match for any other aircraft, (Other than F-14 and F-15). It has a high maneuvebilty rating whicn makes it a good dual purpose aircraft, both as attack and intercept. Same capability as the F-18 though much cheaper in cost.

Attack ( Ground Attack)
A-6B Intruder

This aircraft is not very familiar but this one served as one of the backbone attack aircraft of the US Navy Fleet. A squadron of A-6B armed with maverick missiles can cripple an entire carrier group.

Long Range Attack
B-52 (Nothing beats this bad boy)

Though very vulnerable, this baby can ruin cities in no time.

Transport
KC-130

Much better than the old C-130, with improved navigation system.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IDAGDAG NYO NA RIN PANG PATAY NG MGA BULLSHIT NA ABU SAYAFF
AH-64D LONG BOW APACHE, TIGNAN KO LANG KUNG DI SUMAMBULAT MGA UTAK NILA DITO, hahahahhahahah :rifle: :rifle: :rifle:

ermm..is this not the tanker version?

Are digital paint schemes common in US fighter aircraft now?


My personal choices for the PhAF are just two:

The Gripen or the Su-30MK

no bro, its not the tanker version but i can be modified depending on the need

6th TACTICAL FIGHTER SQUADRON
12/6 - F-16A/B Block 15 ADF
2 - KC-135R AAR Tanker

7th TACTICAL FIGHTER SQUADRON
18 - TA-4M Skyhawk

105th COMBAT JET TRAINER SQUADRON
18 - T-2C Buckeye

16th CLOSE AIR SUPPORT SQUADRON
12 - A-10A Thunderbolt II
18 - OV-10A Bronco

20th AIR COMMANDO SQUADRON
12 - UH-60L Blackhawk - Special Forces Suport

221st MARITIME PATROL SQUADRON
5 - Fokker F-50 MPA

505th AIR RESCUE SQUADRON
16 - Bell 412SP

222nd HEAVY AIR LIFT SQUADRON
8 - C-130B Hercules

223rd LIGHT TACTICAL AIR LIFT SQUADRON
20 - C-212-400 Aviocar

101st PILOT TRAINING SQUADRON
24 - SF-260TPE

210th HELICOPTER TRAINING SQUADRON
12 - Bell 206B-III Jetranger
8 - Bell 412SP

702nd PRESIDENTAL AIR LIFT SQUARON?
1 - 737-800ER
2 - EC-725 Cougar
5 - Bell 412SP

Army takes over ALL the gunship and assualt helicopters.

Realistically Speaking With Extremely 'Limited' Funding:

6th TFS 18 - CF-5D (extensively UpGraded ex. Canadian AF)
7th TFS 12 - AT-2C Buckeye (UpGraded Attack Trainer)
105th CJTS 12 - T-2C Buckeye (surplus ex. U.S.Navy)

16th AS 24 - OV-10A Bronco
18th AHS 30 - MG-520D
20th ACS 6 - Bell 412SP (FMS deal like Pakistan's AF)

221st MPS 4 - Fokker F-50MPA (few left for UpGrading)
505th ARS 12 - Bell 212 (surplus ex. Israeli)

222nd HTS 6 - C-130B Hercules (ex.USAF)
223rd LTS 14 - Basler T-67 Turbo Dakota ($1M each)

101st PTS 18 - SF-260TPE
103rd MET 6 - Beech King Air 100 (Multi-engine Training)
210th HTS 12 - Bell TH-67
12 - Huey II

206th, 207th, 208th, and 209th Tactical Helicopter Squadrons could each have -15- Huey IIs.

AFAIK, digital camo patterns on fighter aircraft are experimental on USMC air assets only.

Supposedly breaks the aircraft's outline against the sky especially in tight dogfights.

Gripen

low operating cost

highly capable MRF