I was wondering what kind of tanks and how many tanks and other armored fighting vehicle does the phillipines have? Also, are the tankers well-trained? Thank you.

TETTET, the Philippine Army has 41 Scorpion tanks as well as several other kinds of armored vehicles including US-made M113 Armored Personnel Carriers, Armored Infantry Vehicles (similar to the Korean KIFVs), Simba armored vehicles among others.

On the other hand, the Philippine Marine Corps has its own armored vehicles with its Combat Support Brigade, with LAVs, gun trucks and the versatile old LVTH-6s.

It would be better to do research BEFORE asking such a question on this forum.

These links should help.

http://www.timawa.net/gallery1.htm

www.hueybravo.net

http://www.hueybravo.net/Philippine%20Army%20Main.htm

http://www.hueybravo.net/PhilippineMarines_Main.htm

http://www.timawa.net/pmc.htm

maybe its time for the army to buy a bradley tank form the US its only 3.2 million it has 2.5mm cannon M242 bushmaster chain gun 7.62mn machine gun and a TOw missile with tubes and anther tank an LAV its $ 900,000 million its armaments M242 and 25mm chain gun excilent for mindanao well there are only tanks good in use here i hope the gov't buys this tanks for r army and marine crop :snipemo: :patrioticpinoy:

the bradey is good, but i will root for more surplus M113 or brand new AIFV's...
AIFV:



or the ASCOD:

or maybe we can build these:



hell yeah!! get some!!
:drunk: :drunk: :demon:

Looks like a modified WW I tank with the latest equipments.

http://members.aol.com/panzersgt/history/early/et5.html
http://members.aol.com/panzersgt/history/early/et04.html
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/ww1/Mk4...apturedguns.jpg
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/ww1/WW1.html

That WW1 tank upgraded to sci-fi levels is great but is still impractical for Philippine use. Consider the tracks being too exposed even with lots of turrets and guns. A RPG could easily immobilize it. It needs to be redesigned further. A good complement to it would be us using old WW2 bomber designs with lots of those turrets. Would make nice AC-130 type for us.

What needs to be considered is how we'll fight in the future. Best move is to use smaller tanks like the Wiesel or the Scorpion and upgrade them with better guns like the Israeli HVMS. Then make them air transportable like on a modified Skycrane. That way, they can be deployed at a moment's notice. Imagine, a group of our upgraded Scorpions will be needed in Basilan again. These can be set into formation in an airbase where they'll be scooped by modified Skycranes. These Skycranes being modified with wings, better engines and VTDP can travel faster than the usual and arrive at the site. Since the Skycranes can deploy their cargo either from the air via powered hooks or like those on some sci-fi concepts they are exposed less to hostile fire. And since other Skycranes will also be deploying specialized pods the attacking force has a much greater chance of success.

If we use the Bradleys, not only are they more expensive but harder to deploy with. Much better if its something that is cheap yet upgradable and something that which we could copy and make more of. The M113 is a nice platform too which can be made into different packages. Something like the MTLB of the Russians.

ya pero hindi na man real tank yan and if u think that tank will be create in the phil think again wala taga

Would you believe me if I sa we could buy >600 heavy tanks (T-80U/90;M1A2;Leopard 2A5/6) within 15 years time???

i really want to :bow: but NO :drunk:
maybe 600 more V300, simba??, AIFV, M113 maybe some casspirs or weasel light tanks...

Why light tanks? They aren't capable of protcting the country at all

those light tanks are the ones that we have right now, and it has PROTECTED our country from muslim and nep insurgents, terrorists and even from our own military with thier numerous coup's in the 80's...
from mr opus' website







:closed:

We should really addreess first our problem first. First upgrade muna natin ang M133 pa. If we can upgrade this unit we can came out more precious hadware also. Ang daming variant ng M113 na pwede sa atin.

also more units of Kalakian,AAAV-7, Scorpion tanks,AIFV and medical version APC's.

Heavy tanks aren't very practical. Just consider their cost (eats a lot of gas and requires pretty good maintenance), the terrain and other surrounding areas (bridges wouldn't be able to hold 'em; too big for urban combat), and the way the AFP fights. The AFP's fighting an insurgency in the jungles and rural areas, not an armored division breaking out in the plains. If the PAF and the Navy knocks out the heavy transports and the LSTs of any invading country, then the heavy tanks would be of no use.

IMHO, rather than purchasing MBTs, we should upgrade our current units with better armor and weapons. If we are to get new ones, we should get LAVs not tanks since tanks aren't applicable in our terrain. If we want to increase fire support, we could get M102 howitzers. Better yet, get better combat boots, kevlar helmets, food rations, rifles, and ammo for our infantry.

My 0.02 :aberet:

The men need those boots. Instead of being replenished every 6 months, they come in every 2-3 years.

In anycase... 15 years from now, that would totally depend on the speed of our recovery.

Enough ammunition for operations? :armyeek:

All the suggested tank models you suggested, such as the M1A2, Leopard, T-80U will be obselete in 15 years' time unless they are HEAVILY UPGRADED versions.

Why buy tanks when you can buy LAVs with anti-tank missiles?

We don't need tanks in an archipelago like the RP. We need more amphibious APCs, as well as a modern air force!

:headbang:

The most important thing we need to do is to curb corruption in the military. Then all the other problems will follow.

I've heard that Filipino scientists now found out how to make "fuel" using coconut oil. Think about building our own light tanks and patrol vessels using this "coco-fuel". Wouldn't that be great?I believe this could just be our chance to rise again amidst the shortages of crude-oil. We wouldn't then be dependent on oil imports that will be very expensive to get anyway. :patrioticpinoy: :werock:

I always knew that those coconuts my grandma grows would be made of good use one of these days.

We have battle tanks!

that is if you believe the Philippine Star hehehe

http://www.philstar.com/philstar/News200602160404.htm

Tanks at Palace stir coup rumors

The Philippine Star 02/16/2006

The arrival of battle tanks at the Malacañang grounds early yesterday morning triggered new coup rumors.

But Palace authorities were quick to clarify the presence of the tanks — accompanied by a truckload of heavily armed soldiers — on the Palace grounds before 4 a.m. yesterday was an authorized troop movement and should not be a cause for alarm.

Led by three Simba-type tanks, the military armored assets came all the way from Camp O’Donnell in Capas, Tarlac, home of the Philippine Army’s Light Armor Regiment (PALAR).

Capt. Ramon Zagala, spokesman for the military’s National Capital Region Command (NCRCOM), said the tanks and the truckload of soldiers belong to the elite Presidential Security Group (PSG).

Zagala said the PSG troops had just returned from daylong armored and infantry training exercises at Crow Valley in Camp O’ Donnell.

"This is an authorized troop movement. There is no reason to fear," Zagala assured the public.

"They (the PSG troops) left for Crow valley (in Tarlac) for test-firing training on Tuesday. They are not reinforcements," Zagala added.

Aside from the PSG, the NCRCOM in Metro Manila forms part of the national government’s first line of defense.

Reports of unauthorized troop movements from Northern Luzon to Metro Manila spread on Tuesday, bolstering talk of an impending coup.

there you go again. they(reporters) mistook the APC's and AIFV as Tanks. :grrr:

probably the LVTH6's or scorpions :dunno:
dammit! our media should do training in identifying military hardware...(meron ba silang military analyst????)
baka matakot ang mga intsik nyan na may "battle tank" na ang AFP :drunk:

That is very sensational again.......

"Battle tank" grabe ano ba tlga ang totoong ipapaalam nila sa mga tao? o gusto nilang takotin lang.

They should be responsible enough in their information disimination. Ganito ba ang media na tlga sa atin may halong sensationalism na? pero di na natin ipinagtataka na ganito ang epekto ng democratic way of government. pero sana naman iniisip din nila ang responsibility sa bawat articles na nababasa ng mga tao.

Please, don't categorize the Bradley Fighting Vehicle and LAV as tanks. M242 is the nomenclature of the 25mm and M240 is the 7.62 MG. I don't think TOW missile is applicable in Mindanao because too much foliage. Its a wire guided missile that needs a clear line of sight to the target.


Also, The Philippine Government needs to raise the pay of all the service members, especially the enlisted. so as the combat and other hazardous pay.

sir GKBO2:

your models of futuristic tanks came from warhammer 10,000 series (model making na, pang-game pa, right!) - but not applicable to our military...

to all sirs:

we don't need those heavy, main battle tanks. why? because we don't have enemies within the country who can field these things, even the chicoms will not use main battle tanks to support their invasion of the philippines (sir ian is right, you just sink one or two LSTs carrying these tanks and bye-bye heavy tank battalion...), also, look back into history, light tanks were fought here in thie philippines during WWII, look what the japs and the G.I.s used). also, look again for economic reasons, these are gas guzzlers! and the maintenance cost-WOW! ubos ang budget ng AFP sa 1 or 2 tanks lang nito...

all we need is/are light tanks like the scorpions. can be transported by air. think, 2 c-130s bringing 4 scorpion tanks = you have 1 platoon of tanks already! we only need to upgrade these tanks, replace the engines for diesel use, install NVG and laser rangefinder/IR, better communications, better armor, and replace the gun w/ 90mm. even the inseurgents are afraid of these tanks (they are great for shock and awe effect, remember the blitzkrieg effect used by the germans during WWII).

for the engine, yes we need to replace its petrol engine with diesel and also be applicable to coco-diesel. we are curently using coco-diesel on 1 of our generator sets (1MW capacity), it is environment friendly. with coco-diesel, the AFP has an alternative if ever they run out of diesel.

as for APC/AIFV, we do not need those bradleys/weisel/BMP-3, etc. we should upgrade all M113s and AIFV. again, purely for economic reason and these weapons are still effective and efficient (kahit mga chicom matatakot dito, mga NPA pa kaya?). upgrade lang! kung baga YOU GET MORE BANG FOR THE BUCKS!

why not adopt an all-wheeled armored force (maybe based in one frame, the LAV comes to mind)? its cheaper to purchase and maintain, easier to transport by existing air assets and the terrain doesnt matter much.

I would like to see these fielded by the Armed forces, but i too would consider having 50 Swedish CV 90 IFV's (cheap and very reliable), modified to various uses, rather than using those pathetic British Scorpions (outdated hulks from the past, these are.. nearly useless exept for target practice. )


Info of these lovely IFVs here = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Vehicle_90
and here = http://www.army-technology.com/projects/cv90/index.html

Now enjoy these pics :specool:


(Anti-Armor variant with a 120mm SmoothBore cannon. Personally, if this is equipped with a targeting computer packages, and a 105mm or a 120mm rifled gun with an auto-loading system installed in the IFV, and fielding 2 of these as Hunter-Killer packs, will sure to give the insurgents and future terrorists a scare of their lives, plus gives the AFP a more efftive, rapid-deployment tank force !)


(The standard export variant of this IFV with a Bofors 40mm Autocannon for general purpose combat.)


The remaining m113's can be used for other roles, such as recovery, anti-air, field-recovery, c&c, field-ambulance, heavy recon and mobile artillery or whatver..

with the remaining budget, i guess upgrades to the remaining equipment will hold.

More to come with the airforce and marines in other threads so enjoy these for now.

MBTs like the US M1Abrams, British Challenger 2 MBT, Russian T90 MBT and other modern MBTs are out of the scope and econony of the AFP. They are monstrously econony-inefficient, head-achingly difficult to maintain, build and support. You need a gigantic logistics support, and everyone knows this, even US brass.

If GMA cant pull out her purse for these, then this might be an alternative =

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-34


(This is the T34/85 variant with an upgraded gun, increased armor and powerplant. IMHO THE BEST MBT OF ALL TIME, HANDS DOWN.)

Dont crucify me for this, as this tank is considered to be the best MBT of all time, even though this piece of junk is a WW2 relic (thats just me, but this WW2 relic will smoke your puny *ss anytime, anywhere.) All modern MBTs designed and made are based on this tank, and best of all, it's still in use (I kid you not ! ). The best variant IMHO is the T34/85 variant. Probably that variant might be rare now, but hey, this tank saved the world from the onslaught of Hitler's Wehrmacht and gave the Imperial Japanese Force horrifying nightmares coz their weapons can't destroy this ugly hulk (their anti-tank weapons were useless on this tank, enough said). The Russians built a staggering horde of these and stopped Hilter's advance into Europe, litterally. So don't spam me for being unpatriotic. I may be an Exile, but at least i keep my ties to my old homeland, even though i grew up in Scandiavia.

So to all you folks, if you were to become the future president of Philippines in the foreseeable future, how would you all upgrade the armed forces from its sorry state ? Post your 2 centavos please :closed:

sir exilepinoy, as per discovery channel's "10 best tanks" yes i may agree that the T34 series is the #1 tank of all time, many of them even went directly to the front (warzone) immediately after being produced fresh from the factory, and yes almost all tanks design is based on this beast...

... but time has change, our enemies has more powerful anti-tank weapons than those being used by the german army dated back from WWII, even an RPG can destroy these beast (yes these tank still serve in other militaries today, especially in civil-war-torn nations in Africa, mostly used by well-armed rebels), even an armor-peircing 20mm round would penetrate this tank, and i don't think there are other natins who is still producing this tank (i don't know if north korea is still upgrading their's)...

... but still, a suggestion is a suggestion, no harm done on this (i think and i hope), but the IFV is also a superb weapon, can be used as a light tank with a 105mm gun, can you give more info on this weapon platform?... thanks

We should also watch out for the US Army's Future Combat Systems program currently in development. One of the componenets of this system would be a family of combat vehicles that would replace Abrams tanks, Bradleys, Strykers and M113s on the battlefield.

One of those vehicles, a "Lightweight Combat Vehicle" can supplement our Scorpions, Simbas and LAV300s. It may not have the armor and brute firepower of even a medium tank, it does make up in speed and mobility, which we need more of in the battlefield.

If our terrain, road and bridges cannot accomodate MBT due to its massive weight and maintenance issue., still Philippine Army needs a descent tank that is light enough with good mobility and have the Firepower of Main Battle Tank.

Malaysia and Thailand have the same rugged terrain like Philippines but they purchase TANK needed by their respective army.

Maybe we can consider StingRay Light tank.




If really the issue is our rugged terrain and thick foliage then our Army has the option to opt for Wheeled Tank with enough firepower the same like MBT.How about this??

The info can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Vehicle_90

And here: http://www.army-technology.com/projects/cv90/index.html


But IMHO the CV90 can be used as BOTH an IFV and a LBT. All the worlds armies are going for low cost, high mobility and multi-role vehicles and strategies, given the immense expense used on armed forces in the western world.

Aww, come on... Lightweight combat vehicles are way to "light" to my opinion. I may be opinionated about this but the "LightWeight Combat Vehicle" program is just too expensive. 20 of those units (whatever they may be, tanks, IFVs or whatever) is still not enough and probably weaker vehicles on average... I'd just ditch the Scorpions and Simbas, but keep the LAVs as troop transports and Infantry support vehicles. LAVs used as Mobile Field Guns is risky at best, since they have a high profile, and its armor is at worst, weak. i would never use these, firing on the move. :armysad:

I prefer upgrades on some IFVs and other auxiliary vehicles, and particularly the M113s.

Wheeled tanks or IFVs for that matter, is not very helpful in a humid, wet, and rugged enviroment. Philippines is a jungle-battlefield, but it provides a lot of cover.

I can accept the Stingray Light tank, heck i would even suggest using the Stingray 2 with modern upgrades, but the LAV300 as a mobile gun platform, i would say no, given the jungle terrain it will be fighting in (Philippines that is) but i WILL consider using them in special cases... a redesign of the LAV300 as a wheeled light tank is a perfect option. Just take away its amphibious and troop transport capability, and give it some good targeting electronics, upgraded engine and fuel supply and advanced armor and you got yourself a medium tank for cheap. Same thing can be applied to the Stingray 2 LBT, but of course, the manufacturers would have certainly thought like that, seriously. :exactly:

if you think like an army general, then all of this will make good common sense. but thats just me.

PS:

Actually we don't need MBTs at all. What the AFP really should get are better LBTs and IFVs for their cheap cost and well-balanced armor, firepower, speed and cheap maintenance. The AFP is trained built as a rapid-strike force and reconnaisance/fire support and infantry support troops, due to the internal strife in Mindanao and low economic funding by the government (due to corruption and factionalism in both the government and armed forces/air force and navy). But then again, sorry for stating the obvious. I just wanna clear that up. :closed:


BUT if we maintain the current speding limit of 995 million USD on upgrades on all 3 branches, we can get ourselves the equipment and weapons we need for the modernization of the army, navy and air force in 5 or 8 years time, at least, IF we can curb the rampant corruption and factionalism in our government and the armed forces.. I revile the thought that our present and forseeable enemies consider us as weaklings, and the western world view the country as a backward country of coconut hicks.. sorry for going off topic.

[QUOTE=ExilePinoy,Mar 8 2006, 01:43 AM]PS:


I CUNCOR WITH SIR EXILEPINOY! NOW WE'RE TALKING SENSES HERE... I SALUTE YOU SIR!

as of before, we should look into the geographic, economic, and present situation of our country and make this the basis of our suggestions... again i salute you sir exilepinoy...


to sir edwin, the reason why malaysia and thailand purchased TANKS its because they have immediate borders with other countries:

Malaysia borders with Indonesia and Thailand
Thailand borders Malaysia, Cambodia, Myanmar, and Laos

they have immediate threats thats why they need medium or heavy tanks even if they have the same geography like us, tanks from these countries can cross their borders within minutes with little preparation, unlike us we are bordered with seas and ocean, our enemies would deliver their tanks thru LSTs, which is much risky if they don't secure the sealanes from an enemy navy... just a comment...

When we choose for future tank/APC systems, we should base our decision on systems compatible with our allies, same with aircrafts and other equipment.

again, we really don't need high-tech MBTs in this country. instead, what we need are light tanks that can, at least, offer sufficient firepower to destroy enemy tanks and vehicles and provide the necessary fire support to our troops.

perhaps 80 to 100 extensively upgraded Scorpion light tanks can work well for Philippine Army as compared to, let us say, 40 to 60 upgraded Leopard 1 or M60A3 Patton MBTs. :aberet:

:urpointis:

Explain to me, sir israeli, WHY ARE SPENDING $995 MILLION USD ON OUTDATED, OUTGUNNED AND UNDER-ARMORED SCORPION TANKS ? These relics of the 60's are not applicable in the modernization of the AFP, and Alvis Vickers, the manufacturer of these tanks, no longer make these pile of scrap anymore.

If this is your suggestion of modernization, then i'd spend the money on turning the army's fleet of, say 100 LAV300s and upgrade half of them to Mobile Field Guns, and the rest as troop transports and field ambulances. (I don't know how many LAV300s the AFP fields... could anyone provide information on this ?)
The M113s can be upgraded as Mobile Command vehicles, AA Missile tanks, fire-support and heavy recon units... more bang for the buck as one member here suggested... :agree:

But, to honour your suggestion, I WOULD use the Scorpion tanks as Mobile Field Artillery pieces, equipping them with 90 mm howitzers for busting up dirt bunkers...

Here is a general suggestion as how the modernization of the AFP be best implemented...

We can keep our Armed Forces to a bare minimum of say, 100.000 men and equipped with light to medium grade equipment ( Scorpion Self-Propelled Artillery vehicles, LAV300 modified as amphibious troop transsports, Mobile Field Guns for fire support, and M113s for heavy recon, fire-support and Anti-air vehicles, and some 40 CV90's as Rapid-deployment light tanks and 20 Stinger 2 Light tanks with upgraded electronics, armor and a 120 smooth-bore or rifled anti-armor as our MBTs. 'sides, upgraded Stinger 2's with more armor, exellent targeting computers and 120mm rifled guns are perfect as hunter-killer packs. Smoking T-64's, T-72's and M60 patton Tanks into smoldering scrap metal. That is what i would have spent the money on modernizing the army . =) ).

What we all should focus on is having a capable and a large navy and air-force. Philippines is an island nation, and has no land boundaries... The terrain is moslty mountainous and rugged, filled with jungle and have a damp enviroment. Our army is used mostly for anti-insurgency, rapid-strike and rear-area infiltration and sabotage (the AFP is a specialist army, according to what i have read from the article about the AFP at wikipedia). That should be enough.

Oh, before i forget, we can also organize the AF similar to the French Foreign Legionnaires. this might sound extreme, but given the expert training in counter-insurgency and anti-terrorist training given by the USAF (United States Armed Forces ), we give our military valuable experience and make them an elite fighting force worthy of UN Peacekeeping service, should things go from there.

Just my 1 piso, 2 centavos worth of thoughts... and again i beg forgiveness for being off topic.. again... But i HAD to make this post in respect of our immediate needs of the army and including the suggestions made here by the people of this discussion, in the spirit of friendship. No Disrespect to you all, really. :closed:

Here is a general suggestion as how the modernization of the AFP be best implemented...

We can keep our Armed Forces to a bare minimum of say, 100.000 men and equipped with light to medium grade equipment ( Scorpion Self-Propelled Artillery vehicles, LAV300 modified as amphibious troop transsports, Mobile Field Guns for fire support, and M113s for heavy recon, fire-support and Anti-air vehicles, and some 40 CV90's as Rapid-deployment light tanks and 20 Stinger 2 Light tanks with upgraded electronics, armor and a 120 smooth-bore or rifled anti-armor as our MBTs. 'sides, upgraded Stinger 2's with more armor, exellent targeting computers and 120mm rifled guns are perfect as hunter-killer packs. Smoking T-64's, T-72's and M60 patton Tanks into smoldering scrap metal. That is what i would have spent the money on modernizing the army . =) ).

What we all should focus on is having a capable and a large navy and air-force. Philippines is an island nation, and has no land boundaries... The terrain is moslty mountainous and rugged, filled with jungle and have a damp enviroment. Our army is used mostly for anti-insurgency, rapid-strike and rear-area infiltration and sabotage (the AFP is a specialist army, according to what i have read from the article about the AFP at wikipedia). That should be enough.

Oh, before i forget, we can also organize the AF similar to the French Foreign Legionnaires. this might sound extreme, but given the expert training in counter-insurgency and anti-terrorist training given by the USAF (United States Armed Forces ), we give our military valuable experience and make them an elite fighting force worthy of UN Peacekeeping service, should things go from there.

Just my 1 piso, 2 centavos worth of thoughts... and again i beg forgiveness for being off topic.. again... But i HAD to make this post in respect of our immediate needs of the army and including the suggestions made here by the people of this discussion, in the spirit of friendship. No Disrespect to you all, really. :closed: