Good evening Gents, just would like to know the current status of our S-211's, how many are flyable, upgraded, decommisioned, lost...

Thanks in advance for your info. :patrioticpinoy:

as far as i know, the Singaporean S-211s are still in service (with RSAF's 130th Squadron) and currently deployed at the RAAF Pearce Air Base in Australia.

perhaps our comrade spiderweb can shed light on this. :armysmile:

Israeli, i guess i goofed, what i meant was our (P.A.F.) SIAI-MARCHETTI S-211's! I'am a Filipino too, and Proud of it! any news on them?

The air force plans to buy a new two - seater trainer aircraft for basic pilot training.

The search for a new trainer to replace the Italian - made Aermacchi S.211 comes at a time when the Republic of Singaore Air Force (RSAF) is replacing some of its frontine fighter aircraft.

After 31 years of service, the Skyhawk warplanes were retired on March 31 and in the coming months a decision is expected to be made on its replacements - a new advanced fighter.

For the new trainer, the contenders include the Aermacchi M-311 jet trainer from Italy, Embraer Super Tucano from Brazil, Korea Aerospace Industries KT-1 from South Korea, Pilatus PC-21 from Switzerland and Raytheon's T-6B Texan II from the United States. Aside from the Italian M-311, all the planes are powered by a turboprop.

Mindef declined to comment on the tender.

The RSAF fleet of Italian - made Aermacchi S.211 trainers entered service from late 1984. After serveral mishaps, fewer than 24 of the original 30 S.211 are still in service.

These 20 - years old aircraft were flown by the RSAF's Flying Training School at the Royal Australian Air Force's Pearce Base near Perth, in western Australian. Here, all trainee pilot have to undergo a nine - month basic training course to determine if they will fly fighter jets, transport planes or helicopters.

Industry sources said that the RSAF will probably need fewer than 30 new trainers to replace the old fleet. They explained that improvements in technology to allow air forces to to fly such trainers more intensively than older models... - Straits Times, Home H6 12/04/05

Guys just to Manokski web site it might help how many were still flyable at this moment.

Link: www.hueybravo.net

sentinel: it's alright sentinel.... so far, only the Philippines and Singapore use the S-211 (Haiti already gave up flying them).

PAF still has about 16-18 S-211s in operation, thanks to the overhauling of the aircraft by Aerotech Industry Philippines (more info in Manokski's website).

like what spiderweb said in his earlier post, Singapore still has 24 S-211s and they are based in Australia. the Singaporeans are already poised in replacing the S-211s, leaving the Philippines being the only country in the world left that still uses the S-211. :wow:

Some related threads:

http://pdff.sytes.net/index.php?showtopic=1689&st=0

we are replacing ours by 2008....


JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - FEBRUARY 01, 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Singapore nears selection of trainer aircraft supplier
Robert Karniol Asia Pacific Editor
Singapore

The Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) is due later in 2006 to select a supplier for its Basic Wings Course, including provision of a platform to replace its fleet of nearly 30 Aermacchi S211 aircraft.

The contract, the value of which is unknown, involves providing a fleet of fixed-wing aircraft for basic flight training together with support services. The platform requirement is for about 20 aircraft, which will be owned by the supplier and provided to the RSAF under a long-term contract.

The Basic Wings Course, which uses the S211, is conducted at the Royal Australian Air Force Pearce airbase in Western Australia. The aircraft are supported by Aerospace Engineering Services, an associated company of Singapore-based Singapore Technologies Aerospace (ST Aerospace), and the new programme is likely to continue operating from Pearce.

The S211 replacement programme was launched with a request for information issued in 2002 and the programme timeline was firmed up in 2004. "A decision is likely before the end of the year, and the operational date will probably be in late 2007 or early 2008," ST Aerospace President Tay Kok Khiang told JDW.

Four companies are competing for the contract, with evaluation of the platforms on offer recently completed. ST Aerospace has put forward Raytheon's T-6B, which was selected by the US Air Force and US Navy in their Joint Primary Aircraft Training System competition. Other options include the Embraer Super Tucano, Aermacchi M-311 and Pilatus PC-21.

The Basic Wings Course will evolve to become a 'public-private-partnership' programme with the selection of a supplier, meaning that the RSAF will operate the aircraft but neither own nor support them.

This will supplement similar arrangements in place with the RSAF's Transport Wing Course, which was introduced in 2003, and Rotary Wing Course currently in preparation.

Both these established programmes are operated by ST Aerospace, the former involving a single Beech King Air C90 and latter five EC 120 Colibris due for delivery before 2007. The S211s are due to be replaced in 2008, but disposal plans have yet to be finalised.

DATE:14/02/06
SOURCE:Flight International


Philippines left to fly solo


Singapore’s retirement of its Aermacchi S211 fleet will leave the Philippines air force as the only military operator of the basic jet trainer from 2008.

Philippines air force chief Jose Reyes says the country lacks the budget to acquire any new fixed-wing aircraft for at least the next five years and acknowledges keeping the S211 active will be challenging.

The air force now operates only four S211s from an inventory of 18, all of which Reyes says are in repairable condition.

“But they are costly to operate. If we have money we can put more in operation,” Reyes says.

The air force needs the S211, the only jet remaining in its fleet, to keep its fighter pilots proficient following the decommissioning of its last Northrop F-5 last year. It also uses the S211 for light attack missions to supplement its fleet of 14 Rockwell OV-10 Broncos.

“Without the S211 we have problems with our fighter pilots. It’s the only aircraft that retains proficiency of our fighter pilots,” Reyes says.

The air force needs to keep its S211s until it acquires a new attack aircraft to replace its OV-10s, which is now planned for 2012 to 2017. But Reyes says “maintenance and spares will be a problem”.

Contractor Aerodef Asia, however, says its inventory of S211 parts should be sufficient to support the current fleet for at least another 10 years.

Italian-owned Aerodef acquired the parts from Aermacchi several years ago and now supports the Philippines air force, the Singapore air force and a US civilian company that still operates two ex-Haiti air force S211s.

Singapore-based Aerodef Asia is seeking to buy Singapore’s 27 remaining S211s and remarket them to other operators.

Aerodef is also backing Aermacchi’s M311 campaign in Singapore, but does not see the Philippines as a potential short-term customer for the M311 because of budget constraints.

Raytheon, however, sees Philippines as a potential customer for the T-6B because the aircraft can be used as both a trainer and light attack aircraft. The T-6B could replace the S211, OV-10 and the air force’s fleet of six Aermacchi SF260 turboprops, which it uses for primary pilot training.

“I think we may have some opportunities in the Philippines,” says T-6 regional manager for the Asia-Pacific Jim DeGarmo.

Reyes says he evaluated the T-6B while it toured Australia last year and adds the air force may also be interested in Embraer’s EMB-314 Super Tucano for counter-insurgency missions. But he says the service aims to acquire a jet rather than a turboprop to replace its OV-10s.

He expects the new platform will be used for lead-in fighter training (LIFT), ground attack and fighter intercept missions. The LIFT role will be particularly important if the air force’s plan to acquire a multi-role fighter between 2018 and 2023 is realised.

Under this plan, another aircraft will eventually have to be acquired to replace the SF260s, but the air force has not included any new basic trainers in its 18-year spending plan.

In the meantime, the air force is upgrading its OV-10 fleet by equipping them with four-bladed propellers and belly cannons. The service installed the new propellers, supplied by Arizona-based Marsh Aviation, on four OV-10s last year, and will upgrade another two aircraft early this year.

The air force seeks funds to upgrade the final eight aircraft. The new propellers, coupled with slight modifications to the engine, have resulted in a 25-30% power improvement, giving the OV-10 the ability to carry heavier loads and remain over target areas longer.

The 20mm cannons have been installed on five aircraft and the service aims to equip the remaining nine by mid-2007. It has also received a proposal from Boeing and local maintenance company Asian Aerospace for a package of OV-10 structural and avionics upgrades.

But Reyes says the OV-10s can be flown for at least a few more years before they reach 15,000h, the projected end of their current service lives, and structural and avionics upgrades will only be considered after the propeller and cannon upgrades are completed.


BRENDAN SOBIE / MANILA

Here we are, dreaming of acquiring a squadron of MRF or even second hand MRF and yet we cannot even afford to maintain and operate our fleet of 18 trainer jet that is supposed to be cheaper to maintain and operate than the F16 and JAS39?


2018 and 2023 the projected year the PAF is expected to have new MRF?

I am probably dead by that time! :headbang:

Yup. we are left alone as the lone user of the S-211. our current situation of flying this machines is one dying stage. if the national government cannot raise funds for the repair of this sub sonic jet this might put the a black hole in the training system.the transfer of ideas and techniques might put as also in a situation that we are sending this pilots and technician for schooling in the US and other ally countries.

Although this units are repairable the national government should give way to the release of funds to the PAF repair of S-211 sub sonic jets. if we can bring in service about 7 units this year this will give a total of 11 flying S-211.

"There is nothing inherently wrong with the type. The problem lies in the PAF practice of under funding maintenance - of acquiring more units than it can adequately support at current financing levels. "

The above sentence I took from Comrade Manokski's website, specifically the portion that describes the Philippine Air Force experience with the S211.

In addition to Gen. Reyes' very discouraging outlook on our remaining S211 fleet, it might very well be that before long, the most advanced aircraft in the PAF will be the 30 year-old OV-10s - which are no longer in production.

This is really non-sense. Afteral they planned about the SRDP, suddenly they will broadcast this crappy news! Its really demoralizing! It's possible that some corrupted generals are still here and must be communist symphatizers too whom doesn't wanna see our AFP having modern fighters! I can not believe this!!!!!!!


:headbang: :dontgetit:

If this trend becomes the norm that stands that long, then probably we wont be realizing it no more.

Because by that time, all the OV10s, S211s, MD520s and even the SF260s will all be retired .... AND THE FOOT SOLDIERS ARE LEFT WITH NO AIR SUPPORT TO DEPEND ON.

That's means the presidency will be just a step away from the commies.

I wonder what political parties the members of the Defense and Appropriations Committees really belong to? :drunk:

A classic scenario of "THE ENEMY FROM WITHIN." :armyroleyes:

apparently this "(surface) attack aircraft" will be an MRF in all but name, what is going unsaid, I suspect, is that the retirement of the F-5s is as great a driver in the PAF's planning as the state of the OV-10 fleet. on the other hand:

MANPADs undoubtedly pose a significant threat to propeller-driven COIN a/c, nobody wants to see terrs with Stingers but might this be the PAF's idea of future proofing?

regardless, I agree with the forward-looking and sensible criteria set out by the PAF chief, two birds with one stone indeed :thumb:

the article may prove to be premature, though, since the S211 has a good chance of making a comeback in Singapore:

an M311 win in Singapore paves the way for rescuing the PAF's S211 fleet thru a viable upgrade program, alternatively the Singaporean PPP scheme might eventually be offered to other customers meaning the PAF in the future will rent rather than buy trainer a/c - or maybe not since that would obviously mean one less COIN platform!

should the M311 fail to score in Singapore, it could still compete in Australia, Israel, etc. regardless the PAF's unintented "wait-and-see" stance might actually be a blessing in disguise since by 2012 a dominant and proven trainer a/c bet. the Super Tucano, M311, PC-21, T-6B, etc. will surely have emerged, minimizing the possibility of a repeat of the PAF's impending "solo flight" with the S211.

if current plans do pull through, by 2018 the PAF trainer fleet will comprise of the new LIFT/ground attack/fighter interceptor aircraft, upgraded/refurbed S211s (or rented M311s?) and SF260s possibly with the Layang engine upgrade.

but the same article also tells me they wont choose the S311 due to problem with S211 bought earlier, besides this time the RSAF is not the one buying it instead a commercial company will buy and maintain it at their own cost and rent it to RSAF on the hourly basis. RSAF is now looking at the Advance Jet Trainer and the contenders is M349, Hawk 128 and T-50.

yes, according to the regional manager for Raytheon and the director of international business for Embraer, respectively.

but the same representatives of Aermacchi's competitors nevertheless concede the possibility that Singapore may still choose the M311 because the RSAF may want a jet solution, had been using the M311's ancestor the S211 for over two decades, and may be able to re-use its existing infrastructure thus $aving$. ergo, "good chance".

yes, the "Singaporean PPP scheme" or private-public partnership as posted:

yes, the TA-4SU replacement as we discussed on an older thread. there's a good chance that our PAF look closely at that competition since the M349, Hawk 128 and the T-50 are all potential candidates for the OV-10 replacement, given the PAF's stated preference for a "jet solution" :thumb:

Ano na nangyari dun sa other trainer jets natin? Yun T33 ba yun or something. And were the F5Bs ever were used as trainer jets ba talaga?

Just asking, bakit kasama pa sa Line up ng Aermacchi ang M311 (successor to the S211) kung nandyan na AMX?

just a thought. could the PAF been better off should it selected the C-101 Aviojet for its basic and advanced jet trainer and ground attack aircraft needs instead of sticking with its original plan of having the S-211 for basic jet training and the Hawk (Hawk 100?) for advanced jet training?

of course... we all know that the plan to acquire Hawks did not materialize. :headbang:

Yup, it is a development of the S211.

However, if given a choice, I would still choose the L159 ALCA. The AT50 can offer the best performance among the LCAs in the market. however, I doubt a nation with a limited defense budget and limited infrastructure such as us can afford to maintian something as advanced as the A50.

PROJECT LAYANG...

"SF260s possibly with the Layang engine upgrade"

FYI, the Layang upgrade was originally intended to be an engine upgrade for some 18 SF.260MP/WPs (piston engined versions) into basically the SF260TP (Turbo Prop) standard with the first being delivered in 1996.

However, only one airframe (PAF Serial 15-18 / 618) was converted by the PAF. The rest of the SF260TP airframes received by the PAF were new builds and not conversions.

Project Layang then changed or morphed if you will into a armament program to provide the PAF with strike aircraft to complement the diminishing OV-10 fleet.

The program involved fitting armament hardpoints, intervalometers and gunsights that converted the SF260TPs from training to attack versions only and that some seven or so were converted by 2002, with the first two examples being put into service with 15th Strike Wing in Apr 2001.

http://www.hueybravo.net/Airforcepage/sf260list.htm

in my opinion, we should replace the S-211 ONLY IF we are capable enough to maintain and operate a new model like the Hawk or AMX. Purchasing a new model trainer but failing to maintain them well may be disaster again for the PAF.

Siguro instead of crying over it, pag aralan na lng natin kung pano i improve. ako nasa imagination ko, gawin nating parang L 159, palitan makina nya para maka lipad ng 1000kph at reinforce ang avionics nya para makatanggap ng Python 3 at 4

PC-21s to Replace S211s for RSAF's Basic Wings Training
Singapore Ministry of Defence


The Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) has awarded a service contract to Lockheed Martin Simulation, Training and Support (LMSTS) to support the RSAF's Basic Wings training course in Pearce, Australia with Pilatus PC-21 aircraft. The Basic Wings Course equips RSAF pilots with the knowledge and skills of basic flying before they progress to advanced aircraft training.

As part of the contract, LMSTS will supply and maintain a fleet of Pilatus PC-21 aircraft and a suite of ground-based training systems that meet the RSAF's requirements for its Basic Wings Course. This will allow the RSAF to focus on the core business of flying training.

The PC-21s will replace the Marchetti S-211, which has been the RSAF's basic trainer for 22 years. With modern avionics and a training suite to simulate air and ground targets for basic fighter training, the turboprop PC-21 aircraft will come with advanced technologies to enhance the basic training and proficiency of RSAF pilot trainees.


- could this be an opportunity for the Philippine Air Force? :drunk:

DATE:14/02/06

SOURCE:Flight International

Philippines left to fly solo

Singapore’s retirement of its Aermacchi S211 fleet will leave the Philippines air force as the only military operator of the basic jet trainer from 2008.

Philippines air force chief Jose Reyes says the country lacks the budget to acquire any new fixed-wing aircraft for at least the next five years and acknowledges keeping the S211 active will be challenging.

The air force now operates only four S211s from an inventory of 18, all of which Reyes says are in repairable condition.

“But they are costly to operate. If we have money we can put more in operation,” Reyes says.

The air force needs the S211, the only jet remaining in its fleet, to keep its fighter pilots proficient following the decommissioning of its last Northrop F-5 last year. It also uses the S211 for light attack missions to supplement its fleet of 14 Rockwell OV-10 Broncos.

“Without the S211 we have problems with our fighter pilots. It’s the only aircraft that retains proficiency of our fighter pilots,” Reyes says.

The air force needs to keep its S211s until it acquires a new attack aircraft to replace its OV-10s, which is now planned for 2012 to 2017. But Reyes says “maintenance and spares will be a problem”.

Contractor Aerodef Asia, however, says its inventory of S211 parts should be sufficient to support the current fleet for at least another 10 years.

Italian-owned Aerodef acquired the parts from Aermacchi several years ago and now supports the Philippines air force, the Singapore air force and a US civilian company that still operates two ex-Haiti air force S211s.

Singapore-based Aerodef Asia is seeking to buy Singapore’s 27 remaining S211s and remarket them to other operators.

Aerodef is also backing Aermacchi’s M311 campaign in Singapore, but does not see the Philippines as a potential short-term customer for the M311 because of budget constraints.

Raytheon, however, sees Philippines as a potential customer for the T-6B because the aircraft can be used as both a trainer and light attack aircraft. The T-6B could replace the S211, OV-10 and the air force’s fleet of six Aermacchi SF260 turboprops, which it uses for primary pilot training.

“I think we may have some opportunities in the Philippines,” says T-6 regional manager for the Asia-Pacific Jim DeGarmo.

Reyes says he evaluated the T-6B while it toured Australia last year and adds the air force may also be interested in Embraer’s EMB-314 Super Tucano for counter-insurgency missions. But he says the service aims to acquire a jet rather than a turboprop to replace its OV-10s.

He expects the new platform will be used for lead-in fighter training (LIFT), ground attack and fighter intercept missions. The LIFT role will be particularly important if the air force’s plan to acquire a multi-role fighter between 2018 and 2023?is realised.

Under this plan, another aircraft will eventually have to be acquired to replace the SF260s, but the air force has not included any new basic trainers in its 18-year spending plan.

In the meantime, the air force is upgrading its OV-10 fleet by equipping them with four-bladed propellers and belly cannons. The service installed the new propellers, supplied by Arizona-based Marsh Aviation, on four OV-10s last year, and will upgrade another two aircraft early this year.

The air force seeks funds to upgrade the final eight aircraft. The new propellers, coupled with slight modifications to the engine, have resulted in a 25-30% power improvement, giving the OV-10 the ability to carry heavier loads and remain over target areas longer.

The 20mm cannons have been installed on five aircraft and the service aims to equip the remaining nine by mid-2007. It has also received a proposal from Boeing and local maintenance company Asian Aerospace for a package of OV-10 structural and avionics upgrades.

But Reyes says the OV-10s can be flown for at least a few more years before they reach 15,000h, the projected end of their current service lives, and structural and avionics upgrades will only be considered after the propeller and cannon upgrades are completed.

BRENDAN SOBIE / MANILA

Philippine Air Force S211

air defense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9cTbNCacwM

aerobatics 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-pRGiu_WZI

aerobatics 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZogYNI8qg4Q

victory roll
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHz_mERmSEA

He he. Lets ask the local Dornier person to help design a low-cost Alpha Jet. Salpakan na lang ng mga basic instrumentation. But I doubt that much progress can be on this. May major issue na naman kasi between our different officials. Try ko muna magawaan ng input iyon - and hope maka-influence kahit konti na maging matino end decision :)

Bad news for all the Alpha Jet and L159 fans here on PDFF: looks like the PAF's AS211 fleet would be soldiering on for the long-haul. They are currently evaluating upgrades to improve their combat capability.

Upgrades and tests include:

-.50 cal gun pods

-Installation of F5A gunsights

-HVAR launchers

They are are also looking into the feasibility of GPS level bombing using this platform

To shed light on this, better check this post I'm quoting from Timawa

If the PAF is looking to upgrade the S211's combat capabilities, they might as well look into these:

- Avionics upgrades to enable the aircraft to fire AIM9 Sidewinders we have in storage or Stingers if `winders are too heavy

- Drop tanks to improve range

- 20mm cannon pods (using guns taken from decommissioned F8s or F5s)

- Camera pods

- Upgrading the powerplant to more powerful engines

Sir Tora,

Won't these proposed upgrades you mentioned be equal to a brand new jet? Sometimes its not practical anymore to upgrade a hardware to the point where the cost incurred is about the same price as a brand new plane. Just my thought, sir.

:ssalute:

No brand new ALCAs :armycry:
Sooner or later, the PAF will need newer jets...

i think the S211 's we have are still very capable platforms aif upgraded and repaired, maybe a dozen out of the 17 reportedly in inventory. why not repair and upgrade a dozen like the 4 earlier being lined up for upgrades?a dozen of these jets still is very capable for jet training on the PAF pilot school. im not agreeing much into seeing another jet to be acquired for training and attack.i still prefer the prop but powerful AMX tucano for the attack role. getting another new sets of jets when we still can make do with our current fleet is expensive, we cant even maintain our current S211's.only hwen the new attack props are acquired can we buy a more capable LIFT jet to complement the future MRF program of the PAF. till then, fix and upgrade the s211's

Any updates on the S 211 which disappeared while on a reconaissance search and rescue mission?

Allegedly, the jet was :fire: SHOT DOWN and not lost due to engine trouble.

( I dont know the latest count) of our AS211 as of now..Can we incorporate the Sea skua antiship missile to this flatform which have 5 hardpoints?

http://www.airforce-technology.com/project...11a/s211a7.html

http://www.deagel.com/Anti-Ship-Missiles/S...a001118001.aspx

Or better we should get more A-4 Skyhawks from Singapore & buy either Harpoon or Exocet or any other anti-ship missles, & blast those responsible in shooting down our bird :fire:

Singapore will retire it's Skyhawks soon, maybe we should get it , because they have the still airworthy skyhawks today, also add the seawolf missle boats sayang ang pagkakataon,

also add the seawolf missle boats sayang ang pagkakataon,

I dont know if theres already a govt to govt deal about the seawolf missile.(I think Indonesia is also interested with the seawolf missile boats.)

But for the AS211 ,We have 5 attack flatform of this kind in the inventory before the Nov 2007 incident .. Total AS211 = 4 (If no purchases or upgradings happened)..

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I agree with you on this...

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Bibili bili ng marami pero di naman name-maintain.

Tapos, bibili pa ulit ng marami.

Then, ganun ulit. Di na naman mame-maintain...

What a waste!

I pay my taxes man!

You guys are paying your taxes too...

This is too much!

We should maximize our assets before retiring or replacing them.

AS-211s still kick-ass...

But if the morons in the government will use our taxes to buy new AIR-CRAPS... whew!

sana man lang totoong AIR-CRAFT na...

Sana man lang i-consider nila yung EADS MAKO, hehehe

Kahit dalawa lang, ok na sakin yun. At least I will know that my taxes were well spent.

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The EADS MAKO HEAT Trainer / LCA









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Wish ko lang... hehehe

But this could really be a good LIFT trainer, I hope it goes to full production.

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air to ground!


air to air (good ole sidewinder!)


s211 drivers!


ayos!

That Sidewinder should be in the PAF Museum. :armysmile: