Production of F/A-22 could stop soon, but F-35 isn't far off
By Bob Cox

Star-Telegram Staff Writer
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/10529582.htm?1c




Production of Lockheed Martin's F/A-22 Raptor fighter jet could grind to a halt within just a few years if the Defense Department succeeds in scaling back the program.

One defense consultant said Wednesday that if the Pentagon's reported plan to reduce F/A-22 orders to about 160 planes is approved, production cuts would start taking effect after the 2007 budget year and production could end by about 2010.

But in Fort Worth, where 1,500 people work on the F/A-22 program, the cutbacks would be muted by the expected buildup of production on the F-35 joint strike fighter.

It remains to be seen, said Loren Thompson of the Lexington Institute, whether Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld can sell his plan to a Congress where many members criticize his leadership.

"It's quite possible he simply cannot maintain these cuts," Thompson said.

Air Force officials declined to comment Wednesday on reports that the Pentagon has told the White House and Congress that it will sharply cut the program. The plans were reported Wednesday by The New York Times.

The F/A-22 is a joint project of Lockheed and Boeing. Boeing builds the wings and tail and provides much of the electronics. Lockheed builds the midfuselage in Fort Worth, with about 1,500 people working on the program; about 2,000 more work on final assembly in Marietta, Ga.

The F-35 should be edging toward higher production rates in Fort Worth just as the F/A-22 cutbacks would occur. Lockheed employs about 16,000 at its Fort Worth plant, working on the F-35, F/A-22 and the F-16 programs.

Senior Air Force leaders have said the F/A-22 was their top procurement priority and that they needed at least 381 planes. About 72 planes have been delivered or are in the pipeline. Plans called for ordering 24 in 2005, 26 in 2006 and 32 in 2007 and for several years afterward.

Reports that the Pentagon wants to cut F/A-22 purchases come little more than a week after one of the high-tech fighters crashed on takeoff at Nellis Air Force Base, Nev.

Twenty-eight Raptors remain grounded as a safety precaution, Air Force spokesman Doug Karas said, with no timetable for returning to flight.

Karas said the Air Force would not comment on its budget plans "until the president's budget goes to Congress early next year."

Lockheed spokesman Joe Quimby, based in Marietta, said the company had received no notice of any change in the Air Force's plans for buying F/A-22s. "We stand by our commitment to producing the number of aircraft the Air Force requires," Quimby said.

Lockheed shares (ticker: LMT) dipped on the news, falling $1.51 a share to close at $55.25. The stock has fallen more than 10 percent from its early December high of $61.77. Stocks of other defense companies have taken hits in recent days as speculation mounts over potential budget cuts.

The Air Force, Thompson said, is "very upset" about the Pentagon budget decision, which was approved Monday by Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz. "The senior Air Force leadership believes they cannot preserve global air superiority without the F/A-22."

Pentagon and congressional critics say the need for the F/A-22 -- the costliest fighter ever built, with an estimated cost of more than $250 million each -- has diminished with the end of the Cold War and the lack heavily armed nations that pose a threat.

Thompson said that critics will argue that the savings from buying fewer planes will help pay for the Iraq war, but he said savings from the proposed cuts wouldn't come for several years.

Civilian Pentagon leaders, Thompson said, are using the budget pressures resulting from the Iraq war "as an excuse to rearrange the Air Force leadership's priorities."

In recent months, Air Force leaders have talked openly of maintaining their planned F/A-22 purchases while reducing the numbers of F-35s they expect to procure to meet the tighter budgets expected in future years.

Thompson, who said he was briefed on the budget document, said it's possible the Pentagon leadership could reverse the Air Force's priorities.

Pentagon officials have to weigh not only the cost of supporting troops fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan but also planned future purchases of major weapons systems by all the armed services.

"What they're worried about is when the F/A-22, F-35 and [the Navy's] F-18G all are in production simultaneously" along with increases for ships and other major weapons programs, said Paul Nisbet, an aerospace industry analyst with JSA Research.

Nisbet says history shows that it's hard to predict how many of any aircraft the Pentagon will ultimately end up buying.

Lockheed's F-16 "started at 800" planes in the mid-1970s, Nisbet said, "and now it's at more than 4,000."

aah this is just propaganda to mislead people about US firepower

How exactly is this propaganda?

well the US will not disclose full capabilities so competing countries think thef22 is no more or they are mislead by the actual numbers what do you think?

Been redin too many conspiracy novels lately Liplock?

i saw today on cnn that the raptor is finally in combat service after 20 yrs. in development.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-22.htm
that's psycho airpower!! :drunk:

OLD NEWS. There's been 40+ Raptors operating at Tyndall Air Force Base in the US since 2003.

USAF squadrons at Seymour Johnson AFB are also transitioning, so I've heard.

i think those will be the ones to see real combat action in iraq or afghanistan, maybe in iran or nokor in the future :drunk:

which between the F-15 and the F-16 will the F-22 replace in service? also, i was think if the development of the F/A-22 variant is already under way. :fire:

Actually the F22 is now called F/A-22, the F22 program is under fire in congress for its rising development cost, the reason for that is because, F22 is optimized for air to air role only, with secondary ground attack role. So some enterprising officials renamed the fighter into F/A22 to please the critics.

^ but then, maybe there's a chance for military designers to actually design and build a multi-role version of the Raptor, right? :dunno:

Simply put, the Raptor will replace Eagles and Strike Eagles. Both are air-superiority fighters with extensive strike capabilities. el_commandante is right, they said it cost too much to be a one-trick pony. The JSF will be the main strike aircraft of the USAF in the near future supplanting Fighting Falcons and Super Hornets in frontline service. If the gov't has its sh!t together, screw Falcons, Kfirs, and Hornets. Prepare for acquiring JSF's in two to three decades. Enough time to prep for it. Although people will whine about 'Having fighters to defend our sovereignty right now' let's face it. There is too much to lose for China. We won't get F-16's in about a decade. And by that time, our neighbors would've upgraded their Hornets, Flankers, Falcons, etc. into more capable platforms thereby still leaving us behind.

i think its 12, not 40.......



US Air Force Declares Initial Operating Capability for Lockheed Martin F-22A Raptor Fighter

Press Release Source: Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company
Thursday December 15, 2:53 pm ET


MARIETTA, Ga., Dec. 15 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Lockheed Martin's (NYSE: LMT - News) F-22A Raptor, the world's only 5th generation fighter aircraft, surpassed a monumental milestone today when the United States Air Force declared that the Raptor has reached initial operational capability.

General Ronald E. Keys, Commander of Air Combat Command, made the historic announcement at Langley Air Force Base, Va., from a Raptor hangar near his headquarters. "The F-22A fulfills a long quest to bring 5th generation capabilities of stealth, supercruise, and precision to the warfighter today and for decades to come," said General Keys in an Air Force news release. "If we go to war tomorrow, the Raptor will go with us."

The Air Force is now capable of deploying and supporting 12 F-22A Raptor aircraft anywhere in the world to execute air-to-air and air-to-ground missions. The Raptor is also qualified to perform homeland defense missions when required.

more.....
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/051215/dath016.html

Wushu,

My friend is a USAF 1st LT- when he was in AFROTC at my university, he had one of his FTXs at Tyndall AFB. He told me there were 40 though I still have to confirm that number.

Still, that article only proves that the US is capable of supporting 12 aircraft worldwide, but does not detail how many F-22s are in service within the continental US.

Look up a more reliable source next time.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/sys...f-22-deploy.htm

BTW, is doesn't your name mean "martial arts" in Mandarin?

press release was from lockheed martin itself...... and yes, it says 12 aircraft can be supported.... there may be more flying around but maybe not yet combat ready and still undergoing tests and/or outfitting of additional equipment......

and yes, wushu literally means "martial art".... or it may refer to the modern chinese fighting style.... you may be familiar with its slow-fast sword movements and balanced stances.......

or maybe its an expression of disbelief......

man 1: pare, nakilala ko sa bar si cyndi kurleto....
man 2: ows? tapos?
man 1: tapos sumama sa akin sa bahay pare!
man 2: wushu.....

The F22 Raptor is just plain kickin' awesome!

Pilots say new U.S. stealth fighter has no equal

Jawdropping :wow:

http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/13458528.htm

So that's the figures.

And the cost, US$160 - 350 Million, :wow: Indeed, jawdropping.

edit: hmmm, posted na pala ni wardog link to this article... me bad :drunk:


http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/13458528.htm
Posted on Wed, Dec. 21, 2005
Pilots say new U.S. stealth fighter has no equal
MELISSA NELSON
Associated Press


TYNDALL AIR FORCE BASE, Fla. - The Air Force's new F-22A Raptor
is such a dominant fighter jet that in mock dogfights its pilots
typically take on six F-15 Eagles at once.

Despite the favorable odds, the F-15s, still one of the world's
most capable fighters, are no contest for the fastest
radar-evading stealth jet ever built.

"The F-15 pilots, they are the world's best pilots," said Lt.
Col. David Krumm, an F-22A instructor pilot. "When you take them
flying against anyone else in the world, they are going to wipe
the floor with them. It's a startling moment for them to come
down here and get waylaid."

The F-22A officially became ready for combat this month with a
squadron of 12 Raptors on standby for worldwide deployment at
Langley Air Force Base, Va.

Those who know the Raptor best say it represents a major leap in
U.S. warfighting abilities. At this Florida Panhandle base,
where all Raptor pilots are trained, instructors say the jet's
stealth, speed and ability to electronically scan the
battlefield from the air are far superior to any other fighter.

"This is what's next," Krumm said. "The stuff that we have is
great and it's capable, but this is what's next."
The Raptor, originally designed for air-to-air combat, was
expanded to include a ground attack role. Pilots dropped bombs
from Raptors for the first time last weekend in training
exercises at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada.

One of the challenges is finding pilots for the single-seat
Raptors, formerly designated F/A-22 to emphasize its ground
attack role. The Air Force looks for experienced pilots with a
background in fighters and bomb dropping, said Col. Matthew
Molloy.

Raptor pilots are former F-15 pilots who have flown a two-seat
version, the F-15E Strike Eagle, and also have ground attack
experience. The F-16 Fighting Falcon is the Air Force's only
other jet that flies both air-to-air and air-to-ground missions.
Eventually, the Air Force plans to take students straight out of
pilot training into the Raptor program, Molloy said.

Critics say the Raptor is too expensive at a time when the U.S.
already dominates the skies, and that it was designed for a
high-tech enemy that no longer exists - the Soviet Union.
The Air Force puts the Raptor's price tag at $160 million per
plane, but outside experts estimate they cost more than $350
million each when research and development expenses are
added.

So far, the Air Force has 56 Raptors, including training and
test fighters, at Tyndall, Langley, Nellis and Edwards Air Force
Base, Calif. The current budget plans call for about 180
Raptors, but the Air Force wants more. Tyndall has the
largest contingent at 23.

Military leaders say the plane will ensure American air
dominance for years to come.

"In any air-to-air fight out there, it is a hopeless mismatch,"
Krumm said. "What we are more concerned with are countries
that want to deny us air space by purchasing surface-to-air
missiles and that kind of stuff. Those are very lethal to the
way the U.S. deploys."

The Raptor is designed to be especially proficient at taking out
such ground-launched missiles because of its speed and stealth.
That's something military leaders say could be needed in a fight
against potential enemies including Iran or North Korea.

"We want to kick the door down so the air space is clear for
any (aircraft) you want to go in," Krumm said. "Someone could
come in flying a Cessna 172 with a pistol if you wanted after
we're done."

The Raptor's dogfighting capability adds a new dimension to the
Air Force's fleet of stealth aircraft. Krumm compared the
earlier F-117 Nighthawk and B-2 Spirit to cockroaches.

"They want to sneak in, drop their bombs, and sneak out again.
They have absolutely no wish for a fight," he said. "They don't
have air-to-air missiles, they cannot maneuver that well or
anything else. Our airplane is entirely offensive. Not only am I
stealthy, but I'll also hunt you down and kill you if you get in
my way."

And then there is the Raptor's super cruise capability that lets
it fly at supersonic speed without using fuel-guzzling
afterburners as required by other fighters.

"That saves us a lot of gas and opens up a whole host of things
when you start talking about dropping bombs," Krumm said. "You
can imagine if you are 60,000 feet doing mach 1.9 (about 1,400
mph) and these bombs are flying out of your airplane, the swath
of hell you can produce going through a country saying 'I'll
take that target, and that target'."

Twelve Raptors will head to Alaska in June for their first
routine peacetime exercise deployment.

In the meantime, the instructors at Tyndall's 325th Fighter Wing
will continue looking for the Air Force's top pilots to fly the
world's best fighter jet.

"Langley rapidly needs pilots and we are trying to produce
pilots to keep up with the production of the airplanes," Molloy
said.

Krumm said one issue is that the plane is single-seater, which
means only the most experienced fighter pilots, capable of
flying such a high-tech plane solo, will be selected until the
program becomes more routine.

"When you strap on $160 million of taxpayer money, it's by
yourself with me nervously flying alongside you going 'Please
don't screw up, please don't screw up,'" Krumm said.

The F-22 Superjet: Maintaining the U.S. Advantage in the Pacific

U.S. Air Force (USAF) Chief of Staff Gen. T. Michael Moseley said Jan. 4 that the new F-22 "Raptor" air-dominance fighter will soon be ready for foreign deployment -- possibly to South Korea.

The F-22 has been officially part of the USAF's combat inventory since its oldest fighter unit, the 27th Fighter Squadron (FS), reached initial operational capability on the aircraft after trading in its F-15s in December 2005. The 94th FS will be next in line to re-equip with F-22s, followed by the 71st FS. All three squadrons are part of the 1st Fighter Wing located at Langley Air Force Base (AFB) in Virginia.

In June, the 27th will take the F-22 on its first long-range deployment when it temporarily relocates to Elmendorf AFB in Alaska while Langley's runway is repaired. After that, the unit probably will deploy outside of U.S. territory, with South Korea a likely temporary destination. In the longer term, however, Okinawa, Japan, seems the most likely foreign base for the F-22s.

The F-22 comes from the factory with the powerful AN/APG-77 radar and avionics package as standard equipment. The system is built around Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA), which consists of thousands of sensors linked together by a high-speed computer. The AESA can act as a jammer to disrupt enemy sensors and electronic systems, provide secure voice and datalink communications, and analyze enemy electronic emissions.

The AN/APG-77 basically makes the F-22 a fairly capable platform for gathering electronic intelligence (ELINT). As it flies near other countries' borders, it can record, categorize and analyze the electronic emissions of the air defense radars as they try to track the aircraft.

Sending the 27th FS to Osan or Kunsan Air Bases in South Korea would give the Air Force the opportunity to use the F-22's powerful systems to probe North Korean air defenses, thereby gathering information about their effectiveness and characteristics. In addition, a Korean deployment would give the USAF a chance to evaluate the jet's ELINT function and develop tactics and procedures for using the aircraft in that capacity.

The USAF initially wanted 750 F-22s, but at a cost of $250 million each, the order has been cut twice -- to a total of 276. Hopes that the unit cost will be defrayed by export sales are not justified -- as the U.S. government likely would allow only Japan and Israel to purchase such a technologically sensitive fighter.

China, with its rapidly modernizing military, is emerging as the U.S. military's most likely conventional threat. In addition, other air forces are acquiring systems that are closing the gap with the USAF's aging inventory. In China, the People's Liberation Army Air Force operates large numbers of the very capable Su-27SK and Su-30MMK, and is bringing the indigenously developed J-10 online. To meet this threat, the 44th and 67th fighter squadrons at Kadena Air Base on Okinawa, Japan, could be the next home base for the F-22 after the 1st Fighter Wing at Langley is fully equipped.

January 05, 2006 22 03 GMT © Copyright 2006 Strategic Forecasting Inc. All rights reserved.

http://www.stratfor.com/products/premium/r...e.php?id=260447



is it too late to interest the USAF in one of our bases? :armygrin:

haha at gusto na nga ma scrap ang VFA...

This will give the NoKors something to think about..

imagine one of them experiencing a training accident and crashing into russian or chinese territory.....

good question (re P-3 Aries incident). a self-destruct facility, perhaps? :armyskeptic:

Would be just another testing ground to see if the systems work. If not, look for other flashpoints, as usual. Then develop new ones. Then test... then...again. :drunk:

http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,88282,00.html


Air Force Plans to Sell F-22As to Allies
InsideDefense.com NewsStand | John T. Bennett | February 17, 2006


Momentum is building within the Air Force to sell the service's prized F-22A Raptor -- which is loaded with super-secret systems -- to trusted U.S. allies, with Japan viewed as the most likely buyer, service and industry officials tell Inside the Air Force.

A Lockheed Martin official heavily involved in the Raptor program told ITAF Feb. 14 that a proposal to alter course and sell the Raptor to Japan is working its way through the Air Force. Lockheed is leading development and production work on the service's newest fighter.

“Right now, [the proposal] is at the three- or four-star level” within the Air Force, the Lockheed official said. “It's not at the highest levels yet . . . to the people who really count -- but it's getting there.”

Several service officials, including a key four-star command chief, that have spoken with ITAF also have confirmed that the notion of selling a yet-undetermined number of Raptors to the Japan Air Self-Defense Force (JASDF) is indeed picking up steam among blue-suited military and civilian decision-makers.

Air Combat Command chief Gen. Ronald Keys told ITAF Feb. 2 after his remarks at a conference in Lake Buena Vista, FL, that service officials are debating the notion of putting the F-22A on the international market. Several service officials, who all requested anonymity, have since said the proposal is gaining strength and working its way through the Air Force's cumbersome bureaucracy.

The revived proposal comes as Lockheed has seen the Air Force dramatically scale back its F-22A program. The service initially intended to purchase 381 fighters, but has since scaled that figure back to just over 180. Overseas sales would help the defense giant swell its shrinking F-22A bottom line.

Several industry officials employed by companies partnering with Lockheed on the multibillion-dollar fighter program contacted by ITAF over the past two weeks also confirmed the notion is picking up steam within the air service.

“I'd say there is definitely a renewed interest to develop an international variant” of the F-22A, a Boeing official told ITAF Feb. 2 at the same Florida conference. Boeing is under contract to develop several Raptor components, including its wings, aft-fuselage and avionics systems, according to a company fact sheet. Boeing also is responsible for 70 percent of the F-22A's mission software as well as other components, the fact sheet states.

Defense officials and military analysts, including Loren Thompson of the Washington-based Lexington Institute, contacted this week all agreed Japan is atop what appears at first glance to be a short list of possible Raptor suitors.

Why would there be so few nations in line to buy what is touted by U.S. officials as the most capable fighter jet in history? Sources pointed to several reasons.

First, a list of the Pentagon's most trusted partners already are heavily invested in the Joint Strike Fighter program, having sunk millions into development work and are preparing to spend a large amount of their respective defense budgets on their own F-35 fleets. And second, China and an increasingly stubborn Russia are pegged by strategic military and political thinkers as the only two nations capable of mounting an air-to-air threat against the American military and its allies. Several analysts said that would mean having an extra squadron or two of the F-22As permanently “bedded down” in the region makes strategic sense for the Pentagon.

A Japanese defense official said Feb. 14 that the Asian nation is very interested in purchasing the F-22A as a replacement for its F-4 aircraft, and confirmed the JASDF has contacted both Raptor-maker Lockheed Martin and the Air Force about buying the fighter.

The Japan Air Self-Defense Force currently has four fighter jet models in its fleet -- F-15s, F-4 interceptors, F-2s and F-1s. The JASDF introduced the F-4s in 1973 and has indicated it will begin retiring them some time next decade.

At press time (Feb. 16), the Air Force had not responded to several requests for comment submitted by a reporter over the past two weeks.

The controversial proposal would need the approval of top officials at the Defense and State departments as well as on Capitol Hill. A collective decision to export the fighter would require a change of mind from the Pentagon, Foggy Bottom and Capitol Hill.

Each Washington entity has for years resisted exporting the Raptor -- even to the coziest of U.S. allies -- based on fears some of the F-22A's most-advanced systems could “migrate” to potential adversaries, especially China. The Asian giant is viewed by many Pentagon officials and military scholars as the most likely nation that could take on the U.S. military in a 20th century-style conventional war.

Air Force officials and military analysts said before the U.S. would agree to export the Raptor to Japan, officials there would have to agree to stipulations that F-22A technologies would not be resold to other nations.

“It's hard to envision the F-22A with its current capabilities being exported, even to our closest allies. Its capabilities would almost certainly have to be ‘watered down' for export,” according to Christopher Bolkcom, an analyst at the Congressional Research Service in Washington.

“Would such an aircraft be attractive to foreign countries? Probably. Would it be priced affordably? That is more difficult to predict,” Bolkcom told ITAF Feb. 14. “Technology transfer will likely be a critical issue” that U.S. policy-makers would have to iron out, he added.

Officials could potentially use another high-profile fighter program as a guide, if they opt to move forward with a plan to put the F-22A on the market, the CRS analyst said. “If the JSF program is able to resolve its technology transfer issues, DOD may have a model -- or at least a precedent -- for the F-22A to follow,” Bolkcom concluded.

Though the F-22A is one of the Pentagon's most-valued -- and most costly -- weapon programs, existing laws place the State Department in charge of approving any sales of U.S. defense systems to other nations, defense officials and analysts were quick to point out this week.

To that end, Lockheed, according to the company official, is merely “waiting for the Air Force and State Department to tell us what to do.”

Meanwhile, the Japanese defense official declined to disclose the list of requirements the JASDF would slap on its potential F-22A fleet. The Lockheed official, however, noted the kinds of missions the self-defense minded Japanese air force would assign its Raptors would differ from the tasks that have been prescribed for U.S. F-22A squadrons.

Because a potential Japanese Raptor force would be focused on patrolling its native skies -- as opposed to waging combat operations in far-away and hostile territories like the U.S. models -- the JASDF could well opt to leave many of the air-to-ground capability upgrades planned for future U.S. models off their fleet, the Lockheed official said.

But overall, the company official said, if U.S. officials clear the way, Lockheed expects to sell Japan a Raptor that is “not that different” from the war planes that will fly with U.S. Air Force markings. “I wouldn't expect a dramatic change” to the fighter's closely held futuristic systems, the Lockheed source said.

As the proposal makes its way through the Pentagon and around Washington, U.S. officials are likely to engage in talks about the implications of putting the intricacies of three of the fighter's most-advanced systems in the hands of another nation -- even a close U.S. strategic partner like Japan, defense observers say.

Thompson of the Lexington Institute said Feb. 14 that defense and State officials, and lawmakers in Congress, are likely to remain hesitant to export three key F-22A systems: its electronic architecture; “aspects of its low-observable” technologies; and its next-generation data links, such as the Tactical Targeting Networking Technology waveform system.

Additionally, another defense analyst who closely follows Air Force programs pinpointed the fighter's electronic attack, and intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) systems. In recent months, Air Force officials have stepped up their efforts to publicly tout the war plane's ISR capabilities.

It was not immediately clear how Japan would tailor its Raptor requirements, or how much a JASDF-specific F-22A might cost.

The Air Force's “fly away cost” per Raptor is about $130 million, Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. T. Michael Moseley told reporters following a Pentagon roundtable late last year. Asked how much the Japanese -- or any allied nation interested in buying the fighter -- likely would have to pay for each jet, the Lockheed official said the company “has shown the Japanese the same kind of [per-aircraft cost] numbers Moseley threw out.”

The Japanese defense official told ITAF Feb. 15 that the JASDF plans to send an official to the United States later this year to discuss its fighter-replacement effort -- and the possibility of buying the F-22A -- with U.S. officials. “So, this year is the most important year for JASDF.”