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Philippines Defense Forces Forum > Philippine Army > All-Terrain, Tracked, Light Fighting Vehicle


Title: All-Terrain, Tracked, Light Fighting Vehicle
Description: mudfighter for grunts


tirad - March 31, 2006 10:34 AM (GMT)
Throwing around an idea for a light armored vehicle that can fight alongside infantry in terrain where most other vehicles can't -- for both the Army and Marines.
It should have the following features:

- Extrawide tracks, like the 24-inch-wide tracks on all-terrain "articulated" vehicles such as the Bv206, BvS10 Viking and Singapore's Bronco ATTC.
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Such tracks provide both superior traction and low ground pressure (distributes vehicle's weight over larger area), making them truly all-terrain vehicles that can better traverse muddy or swampy ground (or snow, as intended in other countries). Use of band tracks on the Viking and Bronco make them lighter and quieter (and won't hurt roads).
Just to compare, the 3-4-ton Wiesel has 9.5" tracks, 8-ton Scorpion 12.5", 11-13-ton M113 15", 25-ton CV90 21", behemoth 70-ton Abrams only a tad wider at 25".
Additionally, gives superior load-bearing capability (the Bronco ATTC's rear cabin has a curb weight of 4 tons yet can haul cargo up to 3.5 tons) and thus likely able to handle the weight of modifications.
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- Should be amphibious. Not intended for assaulting beaches, but more as an inland capability for crossing small rivers and flooded areas that are too deep to ford and bridges aren't available. (I don't think Wiesels are amphibious.)
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- A boxy hull. Sure won't make it look sleek but relatively easier to design and has efficient internal volume. More importantly, easier to add up-armoring kits derived from those designed for the similarly boxy M113 (e.g., Israeli L-VAS). Raises protection levels against up to 14.5AP (kahit .50cal lang) and RPG. Plus, add anti-mine belly armor.
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- A hybrid diesel-electric engine. Still an emerging tech but with electric drive engaged, makes this extremely desirable for a vehicle intended to fight in remote areas far from refueling points and where quiet operation is desired. (Environment-friendly din sa woodland hehe.)

- Airportable, internally. Several light tracked types can be sling-loaded by a cargo helo but very few such as the Wiesel and Bv206 can be carried internally to roll-on, roll-off it. The design should consider not just the payload, but also width and height, limitations of a popular CH like the Chinook.
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This would complicate such a design but also has the added objective of coming up with a vehicle that's narrower and lower than most, for squeezing into tight terrain. This would better the Wiesel by having superior all-terrain performance and being better protected.
More like a forward-looking consideration for if/when we get cargo helos, and to interest other countries that already operate such helicopters.
(btw, Wiesels also haven't survived parachute-drop tests. Something of more robust construction might be able to cut it; I'd guess extrawide tracks could better absorb an airdrop impact).

- Armed. A 40/50 turret (combo AGL + .50cal) for the basic fighting vehicle. An asault gun variant with 106RR. Maybe a mobile mortar, with internal 81mm or Wiesel-like-external-rear-mounted 120mm. Later, other armed variants with autocannon, ATGM, SHORAD, etc.

In short... (yeah, there's a short version)
...a wide-tracked all-terrain vehicle, probably in the 7-ton class, protected against HMG fire and RPGs, that's amphibious, airportable, and armed with crew-served weapons opposing infantry can't carry.

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Most of the requirements above could actually be met by modifying an already available vehicle...

- Take just the rear cabin of the Bronco ATTC, for example.
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- Instead of the mechanism that allows it to draw power from the front cabin to drive its roadwheels, make it self-powered. Driver's station to the left of front-mounted engine, fuel tanks mounted externally to the rear a la M113A3.
(The Bronco has been demonstrated as an active acticulation vehicle (AAV), where the two units are decoupled, and a small power unit in the rear cabin allows it to be operated autonomously by remote control for a short period of time.)
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- Up-armor it with kits derived from M113-compatible packages.
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- Mount a 40/50 turret on the roof.

Voila, an all-terrain, tracked, light fighting vehicle.

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Anyways, not just to compete with existing M113/LAV/Wiesel/articulated types already in the market, this might be a worthwhile local project that would be both well-suited to our terrain and also fuses capabilities not found in any single existing product.

An ugly mudfighter doing dirty work alongside grunts, in the roughest terrain.

City Hunter - April 1, 2006 02:16 AM (GMT)
Hindi na uso yun band tracks. Masyadong mahal despite its advantages. The replacement was that may pinapalitan na mga rubber pads na kinakabit sa existing tracks. Mas makakamura kasi yun napudpod na lang ang papalitan and much easier to do kahit sa field.

But the other things mentioned ay ok, for me. Sana nga lang sinama rin turreted mortars.

Havoc - April 17, 2006 12:36 AM (GMT)
How about the BMP-3?

gemini1 - May 27, 2006 03:30 AM (GMT)
Maybe we can acquire this and upgrade the weapons system using HMG

AvantGuard

Patrol, Surveillance & Recce
Autonomous Unmanned Ground Vehicle (UGV)


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Elbit Systems unveiled at AUSA 2005 a futuristic concept of an autonomous unmanned ground vehicle (AUGV) designed for unmanned or manned operations. Named "AvantGuard", the vehicle can assume diverse roles from surveillance and recce to security missions and patrolling routes, detecting and neutralizing Improvised explosive Devices (IED).

The UGV is based on the Tomcar Model TM27GL All Terrain Vehicle (ATV) used by the IDF and Israeli Border Police. The autonomous vehicle configuration utilizes advanced robotics and sensor technologies, allowing it to "think" and avoid obstacles, communicate with the operator or other vehicles. The vehicle uses a sensor package which can identify and avoid obstacles, along a pre-planned route. The navigation system uses Differential GPS (DGPS) system with three control levels. Other sensors include front and rear cameras, mounted on a 360 deg. omni-directional pedestal.

Based on the mission profile, AvantGuard can carry various payloads - including electro-optical, communication relay, jamming and weapon stations. The example demonstrated at AUSA 05 exhibition was fitted with Elbit Systems' 7.62 remote-controlled ORCWS 7.62 mm 95 kg weapons station.

http://www.defense-update.com/products/a/avantguard.htm

fizzy123 - May 27, 2006 01:59 PM (GMT)
BRONCO ATTC

Number of crew : 16 (6 front + 10 rear)
Length : 8.6 m
Height : 2.2 m
Width : 2.3 m

Max Road Speed : 60 km/h
Cross-country Speed : 25 km/h
Swimming Speed : 4.5 km/h
Forward Slope : 60%
Side Slope : 30%
Vertical Obstacle : 0.6 m
Trench Crossing : 1.5 m

Make and Model : Caterpillar
3126B
Type : Four stroke diesel engine turbo charged
& charged air cooled
Fuel : Diesel
Gross Horsepower : 350 bhp at 2400 rpm
Maximum Torque : 1115 Nm at 1440 rpm
Cooling System :
Liquid cooling with coolant pump
Manufacturer : Allison
Designation : MD3560P
Type : Hydromechanical
Transmission Type : Fully automatic
Gearing Type : Constant mesh, helical, planetary
Steering : Hydraulic, articulated

Suspension : Rubber bush
Road Wheels : 12 per-side
Diameter of Road Wheels : 420mm
Support roller per side : 2
Tracks Type : Endless, molded rubber
Tracks Width : 600mm
Tensioner Type : Mechanical

possible variants:

http://www.one35th.com/attc/attc_variants.htm




Wardog - May 30, 2006 02:32 AM (GMT)
good summary of IFVs and APCs, both wheeled and tracked (PDF):

armored vehicles




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