In an effort to reform the ROTC, I would like to hear from other people what they didn't like about their ROTC experience, what they think should be done about it, and what should be added to the program in order to produce better graduates with a holistic learning experience.

I hope to get a lot of good insight! Thanks! :armysmile:

P.S.

I would like to add that this thread shouldn't be used to whine about the program, but instead point out mistakes and suggest alternatives in a constructive criticism type of manner to better improve the program.

Some that I can think of are:

1. Unqualified instructors, sometimes unprepared and sometimes :drunk:
2. Lack of training materials, e.g. familiarization on weapons based on charts and drawings that you cannot even imagine the parts. (well, that was during our time, ngayon may powerpoint and video presentation na).
3. Firing of weapons. I had a sad experience on our cal.45 pistol firing. We were issued three ammos and before you could check on your zeroing your time's out.

Sa Rainbow, sawa ka sa weapons training.

During summer camps.

1. Supplies that should have been issued were not given. Like BDUs etc., May budget daw but where did all those supplies gone?

Regarding the summer camp thing, I know some cadets who were victims of this. Apparently, there were diversions of funds. There was also a time where BDUs from summer camp were released by the end of the 1st semester na.

and the list goes on and on.... had the same experience back in 78, when i heard about the uniforms and boots i was suppose to get i went back to the UP rainbow HQ only to be told wala na daw come back in 2 weeks maybe there will be more supplies to come? :headbang: sa ROTC pa lang corruption na!

Bump

low quality BDU - easily torn and very itchy
we were also issued poor quality boots, some of us have to buy better combat boots ourselves..

not enough working rifles for proper training, we were taught how to strip an M-16 once only to find out in a competition that our rifle was lacking a critical part!

Besides the ROTC, also joined during my high school days the COCC where I finished the course during 4 years in high school. But anyway a total of 6 years of army training but all I cans ay is that military traning for civilians are mostly covered by marches and rifle drill. I would say marchng and rifle drills take up at least 75% while the rest of the 25% army basic training like M1 Garand stripping and assembling, map reading, basic combat maneuover, etc. If the ROTC training is to be successful, I think that more emphasis must be put on practical stuff like being combat ready rather than parade ready. The ROTC as well as CAT spends a great deal of time in marching and rifle drills, which in my opinion, is a waste of time. Preparing civilians like us to be combat ready should be no.1 priority say about 70% while the marching and other fancy parade related stuff about 25%.

Reservists must be exposed to regular map and compass reading drills, live firing, while those that volunteered for Medics must be given actual medical assignments to hone up their skills.

This is the best way, IMO, to experience ROTC training and not the monotonous marching and rifle drills.

I agree with this ... if this had been the case, I would'nt have minded joining rotc and will probably join again if it would be as interesting as this as I graduated rotc without even learning those things ...

Just a speculation ... I guess that the afp just doesn't want to teach these things because it may be used against them????

When I was working in Singapore 10 years ago, I could not help but notice their citizen military training. Teenagers really undergo rigid military training and are assigned to man military hardware under the watchful eyes of their CO's. Even adults in their 30's and late 40's have to undergo occasional military training. They take a military leave from their work to refresh and undergo military training. For the Philippines to be prepared, military training for civilians must be done like this. Now their training is not what we have in ROTC where 70% of the time is wasted on marching and rifle drills, they undergo obstacle courses, mapand compass reading, live firing of small and bigarms, and have war games.

I also agree that Reservist should be trained intensively when it comes to vital Military Courses, but I think since Reservist are mostly Professionals the AFP should consider using this elements in helping our people specially the less fortunate in Livelihood endeavors and help fight poverty.

There are a lot of talks, that in order to lessen the number of individuals joining the LEFT, is to help possible recruits find ways to earn a living. If the ROTC's comeback shall incorporate skills training as some from the Congrtess is planning, well and good.

But People in Government and in the Military should sincerely work towards this, specially when they decide to implement such a measure.

History tells us that we are envied before, like one Korean put it, the Philippines then was rich, he continued that after the Korean war, nothing was left of S. Korea and that during those days they had to migrate and work in Germany. But now look at S. Korea, "kapag nilampasan pa tayo ng Miyanmar at ng ibang mahirap na bansa sa Asia, wala na tayong ipagmamalaki" in terms of economy.

Befor I left for abroad my Mom always tells me "mahirap and buhay" now she is hopeless, by saying -"pahirap ng pahirap, wala ng mangyayari dito sa Bansa natin".

The professionals in the Reserves could make a difference, maybe we should give it a try.

First off, I didn't read past the first post. SO if some of my thoughts have been laid down, I appologize.

1. Hazing - they say it's a tradition passed down since the founding of the american formed philippine reserve days. But isn't the AFP supposed to be here to enforce the laws and constitution of the country? I questioned my senior officer concerning this. He just said that tradition is tradition.
I do understand the need for a soldier who is prepared to absorb pain in the event that he was captured by the enemy. But loyalty is far stronger than fear of pain. If your soldier was loyal to the cause he serves under, what is there to be afraid of? I disagree with this, "tradition". Ugly thing is, the superiors know about this but are turning a blind eye to it because they think it's not a big deal! They went through it. You can't say something to anyone either, because if you did, you'll be breaking the AF's # 1 rule, military secrecy, and if you were a squealer, you'll be dishonored in the eyes of your officers and batchmates irregardless of the honor in your deed. A secret that goes against the very basic principles of the military and it's constitution is not a secret worth keeping. We are supposed to fight for what's right, not hide the wrongs in the system.

2. Preparedness - admit it, the only real people being trained are the officers and a few of the non-coms. What is a reserve army going to do when we get invaded? March?!? That's pitifull! Nuff said. :pushup:

Not all ROTC cadets are actually processed into the reserves. So it would not be right to equate ROTC with the reserves.

ROTC is only supposed to give you a taste of martial structure. There is a lot more to learn before one becomes useful.

Your senior officer was either lousy at explaining things . . . or simply did not understand what he was doing.

What are you referring to as "hazing"?

-> Physical abuse that leave scars and marks?
-> "Financial whacking", exemplified by orders like "heto, .25, bilihan mo ako ng coke"?
-> Rites of passage that ROTC fraternities impose on their members?
-> Activities that are completely different from the norm (e.g., being awoken at odd hours, midnight guard duty shifts, etc.)

You have to be more specific, while being mindful of your obligations, so that we can help you understand why some things are done . . . and which one really are no-nos.

Remember, training is designed to strip you of all dignity. Your dignity is then handed back to you, one piece at a time. This is a time tested process that produces a completely artificial product: a soldier (or a soldier-in-progress).

This is fine in theory . . . but not necessarily true in practice.

"Stability under pressure" is gained through exposure to stress. It is a learned behavior. Balancing school-work with the training regimens is part and parcel of the experience.

Hazing... the physical abuse by the seniors. I understand the rights of passage or guard duty and such. I agree with those things too. Humiliation to a degree can be used as a means to be better even.
But inflicting pain by paddle-ing, punches to the body and humiliation in public just because the officer has nothing else to do? Things that have nothing to do with the training?

Anyway, that answer was what I got when I asked my officer why "must we have hazing when the constitution and laws of the country that we should be upholding prohibits such acts?" and that was his reply.
There are times when an officer does something mischievous that you shouldn't report to your superiors because of military secrecy. Why then would he warn us if it was not something our seniors would demerit him for right? But orders are orders.

I believe such things being done during training are the main reason why a buncha rebels got pass a scout ranger line and why they get bullets intended for the soldiers. 'The-must-not-tel-anybody-else-due-to-secrecy' thing.

hmmmm...ROTC is supposed to be Reserve Officer Training Corps right? They train men to be reserves in the event that the country needs to call on the citicens themselves to fight.
Yes, I guess my term was inappropriate since they are not the official reservists. But they are reserves nontheless in times of need.

If you are assigned a serial number, a rank, and a unit . . then you are a reservist.

Ideally all Basic ROTC graduates are processed that way, but alas . . . such is not the case. These days priority is given to reservists with professional skills that the AFP can really use, or to reservists that actually take arms in service of the AFP.

Reservists who go on CAD or join the CAFGU are examples of the latter.

The part above has EVERYTHING to do with training.

Martial organizations, be it a corps of cadet officers or regular military organizations, are more than just a collection of skills. Its about the mindset. Its exposure to these kinds of stress mechanisms that allow soldiers to put up with crap that would have pure civilians whining and complaining.

Its designed to make you think "oh sh*t, what have I gotten myself into." It induces a condition whereby you are forced to re-evaluate what you want, and to face the limits of your capacity to deal with your pride. Its a test of fortitude . . . mental endurance. These trials are meant to separate the chaff from the valuable grains.

Is public humiliation the only way to do this? No, of course not. But is it one way. Humiliation by itself can come in many forms. In my first year as a cadet (I didn't start as an officer), I saw officer candidates dressing in barong tagalogs, jeans, combat boots, and mohawk haircuts. When my batch became 1st classmen, the "humilitation" came in the form of being "dressed-to-kill": long sleeves, neckties, formal pants and mirror shined leather shoes. In both situations, cadets stuck out like sore thumbs -- the objectives were the same, but the methods were simply different.

Note, it doesn't make you a better person. It just shows who among the trainees are able to master their inner demons. Its the other aspects of training that are supposed to fill in the rest. The true measure of training depends how much more useful stuff is added to the process -- beyond the obligatory physcial and mental hardships.

Service in the military, even if its just the reserves, is not a picnic. Not a walk in the park. If you can't discipline yourself -- control yourself -- to put up with something as harmless as public humilitation, then how reliable will you really be when your life is on the line?

Humiliation doesn't guarantee anything either, but does help prove to yourself that you can conquer yourself. As a USMC drill instructor once said "each day you stick it out in training, is another day you defeat that coward that is (naturally) in you."

corruption! each of the cadets were given 5 disco tickets to sell. you wont get your grade if you will not be able to dispose all of them. lack of equipment- i was with the MP but never fired a weapon during my 2 years in ROTC, just marching with a wooden rifle. Our ROTC is a big joke!

w...wooden sticks :armyeek:

aside from the clothes. i really don't mind. there were just other issues done to my buddy.

asking your cadets to ask a girls name for your officer isnt such a humiliating thing either cause we managed to end up with the girl rather than the officer :armytwisted:

Like i said before, humiliation that has nothing to do with the training. I know those petty things are standard and it separates possible soldiers from boyscouts.

:crawling:

Also would like to add, that during my school days when I volunteered for the Officer Candidate Course and eventually assigned the position of Provost Marshall upon reaching my senior year, needed training and exposure was lacking...so much! Like what I posted earlier in this thread, we just spent most of the time marching, rifle drills, parade in review exercises, etc.

While handling the MP's, my men and I never got to really endure or experience what an MP (or a platoon of MP's) needs to do. I clamored and clamored for training from our commandant ( who was a regular officer of the AFP), needed to sharpen the skills of my men and I. We were actually getting bored with the monotonous marching and rifle drills.

At the beginning and mid of that year, we practically learned nothing except for more rifle and marching drills and took it upon ourselves to do some research in our school library. We had to teach ourselves martial arts, crowd control and dispersal, detaining and questioning, etc which became useful towrds the end of the year where we had instances of cadets skipping training (AWOL) , disruption of training (exploding firecrackers in school bathrooms), etc.

The bottom line is to get the ROTC or CAT training to be more appealing to the youth, some "field" exposure must take place otherwise they will be deterred from actively participating and would rather be AWOL.

:banana:
NO ROTC just join the PA!
I HATE THE ROTC that's why it's NSTP!

Hey Kong,

You and Martian are one and the same person right?

:armyeek:

The ROTC must be totally abolished,
all university students hate the ROTC.
The PA must handle all military training of
reservists....
:banana:

The ROTC is not needed,if a citizen
wants to join the AFP he must enlist directly.
The ROTC is inadequate when it comes to providing
BASIC MILITARY TRAINING. :snipemo: