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Title: AEGIS Combat System, AEGIS warships
Description: Ships that can handle nuke threats


flipzi - July 10, 2006 08:30 AM (GMT)
AEGIS = Airborne Early Warning/Ground Environmental Integration Systems

aegis = (Greek) means shield .... or the shield or buckler of Zeus



When I hear of AEGIS, the first thing that comes to my mind is the Ticonderoga-class guided missile frigates of the US Navy.

This legendary ship fascinates every enthusiast with its deadly suite of modern weapons and surveilance systems overshadowed by its benign look.

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http://navysite.de/cg/cg47.html

General Characteristics: Keel Laid: Jan. 27, 1980
Launched: April 25, 1981
Commissioned: January 22, 1983
Decommissioned: September 30, 2004
Builder: Ingalls Shipbuilding, West Bank, Pascagoula, Miss.
Propulsion system: four General Electric LM 2500 gas turbine engines
Propellers: two
Blades on each Propeller: five
Length: 567 feet (173 meters)
Beam: 55 feet (16.8 meters)
Draft: 34 feet (10.2 meters)
Displacement: approx. 9,600 tons full load
Speed: 30+ knots
Cost: about $1 billion
Aircraft: two SH-60 Sea Hawk (LAMPS 3)
Armament: two Mk 26 missile launchers Standard missiles and ASROC, Mk 46 torpedoes, Harpoon missile launchers two Mk 45 5-inch/54 caliber lightweight guns, two Phalanx CIWS
Homeport: Pascagoula, Miss.
Crew: 33 Officers, 27 Chief Petty Officers and approx. 324 Enlisted


Aegis Combat System

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The Aegis weapons system is a surface-to-air integrated weapons system. It is designed to defend the fleet against any airborne threat. The heart of the Aegis system is the AN/SPY-1 Phased-array radar system coupled with the AN/UYK-1 high-speed computer system. This combination is able to detect incoming missiles or aircraft, sort them by assigning a threat value, assign on-board Standard surface-to-air missiles, and guide the missiles to their targets. Aegis can track up to 100 targets at any given time. The radar panels are flat structures, mounted to give 360 degree coverage around the ship. These are an improvement over the old rotating type of radar in that there are no moving parts. The old rotating radar covered ONLY the area they were scanning. Phased arrays switch rapidly and cover the entire range around the ship in milliseconds.


The Versions (baselines):


Baseline 2 (CG 52-58) consists of the Vertical Launching System, TOMAHAWK Weapon System, and Anti-Submarine Warfare upgrades.


Baseline 3 (CG 59-64) includes the AN/SPY-1B radar and AN/UYQ-21 consoles. Baseline 4 (CG 65-73) integrates the AN/UYK-43/44 computers with superset computer programs developed for the DDG 51.


Baseline 4 is the base Combat System for DDG 51-67.


Baseline 5 was introduced in FY 1992 ships and includes the Joint Tactical Information Distribution System (JTIDS) Command and Control Processor, Tactical Data Information Link 16, Combat Direction Finding, Tactical Data Information Exchange System, AN/SLQ-32(V)3 Active Electronic Counter Countermeasures, and AEGIS Extended Range (ER) Missile. Baseline 5 was developed in three steps (phases):
Phase I integrated AEGIS ER and supports the missile Initial Operational Capability;
Phase II integrated system upgrades including Deceptive Electronic Countermeasures, Track Load Control algorithms, and Track Initiation Processor;
Phase III integrated JTIDS and the OJ-663 color display Tactical Graphics Capability into the AEGIS Combat System.


Baseline 6 will be developed in two phases. Baseline 6 Phase I is planned for the last ship in FY 1994, and Phase III is planned for the first ship in FY 1997. Baseline 6 Phase III is the designation for the computer suite resulting from consolidation of the previous Phase II baseline with variations designed to introduce Tactical Ballistic Missile Defense (TBMD) and Cooperative Engagement Capability (CEC) in in-service ships. Baseline 6 upgrades will include embarked helicopters, Fiber Optics as applied to Data Multiplexing System (DMS), implementation of affordability initiatives, the Radar Set Controller Environmental Simulator (RSCES) and Battle Force Tactical Trainer (BFTT), Advanced Display System, Evolved SEA SPARROW Missile (ESSM), Identification (ID) upgrades Phase I, Advanced TOMAHAWK Weapon Control System (ATWCS) Phase II, Fire Control System upgrades, and the Joint Maritime Command Information System (JMCIS).


Baseline 7 will also be developed in two phases. Baseline 7 Phase I is planned for the last ship in FY 1998 and Phase II is planned for the last ship in FY 2002. Major Baseline 7 upgrades include but are not limited to: AN/SPY-1D(V) radar upgrade, integration of Cooperative Engagement Capability (CEC) and Tactical Ballistic Missile Defense (TBMD) capability (first forward fit implementation), advanced computer architecture, ID upgrades Phase II, Cueing Sensor, STANDARD Missile-2 Block IIIB full integration, Advanced Integrated Electronic Warfare System (AIEWS) Phase I and II, Light Airborne Multipurpose System (LAMPS) helicopter Mark III Block II, Advanced Tactical Support, integrated Naval Surface Fire Support (NSFS), and Mark 50 torpedo with Periscope Depth Attack.

Background:

For more than 40 years, the US Navy has developed systems and tactics to protect itself from air attacks. Since the end of World War II, several generations of anti-ship missiles have emerged as the air threat to the fleet. The first combatant ship sunk by one of these missiles was an Israeli destroyer in October 1967, hit by a Soviet built missile. The threat posed by such weapons was reconfirmed in April 1988 when two Iranian surface combatants fired on US Navy ships and aircraft in the Persian Gulf. The resulting exchange of anti-ship missiles led to the destruction of an Iranian frigate and corvette by US built Harpoon missiles. Modern anti-ship missiles can be launched several hundred miles away. The attacks can be coordinated, combining air, surface and subsurface launches, so that the missiles arrive on target almost simultaneously.

The US Navy's defense against this threat has continued to rely on the winning strategy of defense in depth. Guns were replaced in the late fifties by the first generation of guided missiles in their ships and aircraft. By the late sixties, these missiles continued to perform well, but it was recognized that reaction time, firepower, and operational availability in all environments did not match the threat. To counter this, an operational requirement for an Advanced Surface Missile System (ASMS) was promulgated and a comprehensive engineering development program was initiated to meet that requirement. ASMS was re-named AEGIS (after the mythological shield of Zeus) in December 1969.

The Aegis system was designed as a total weapon system, from detection to kill. The heart of the AEGIS systems is an advanced, automatic detect and track, multi-functional phased-array radar, the AN/SPY-1. This high-powered (four megawatt) radar is able to perform search, track and missile guidance functions simultaneously with a capability of over 100 targets. The first Engineering Development Model (EDM-1) was installed in the test ship, USS NORTON SOUND (AVM 1) in 1973.

AEGIS is currently carried aboard 2 types of ships. The TICONDEROGA-class cruisers were the first. These ships are often fitted with 2 MK 41 VLS. They can carry up to 122 missiles of all types, including Tomahawk, Standard and SLAM. These ships carry a "full" AEGIS System. The second type of ship is the ARLEIGH BURKE-class destroyer. The AEGIS System carried aboard these ships is slightly less capable than the full AEGIS. These ships carry the same complement of missiles as the cruisers.

Currently there are four ship classes in the world equipped with the AEGIS Combat System:

United States:
-The TICONDEROGA-class
-The ARLEIGH BURKE-class

Japan:
-The Kongo-class

Spain:
-The F-100 frigates




The USS Philippine Sea, another ship gifted with such an amazing system.

http://navysite.de/cg/cg58.html

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YiYiYi - July 10, 2006 08:40 AM (GMT)
really impressive ship system but it is really capable of shooting down ICBMs that can carry multiple warheads? i think not, its a system designed to defeat air-luanched, ship-launched, land-launched anti ship missiles and cruise missiles but not advanced ICBMS with multitple independently targeted reentry vehicles (MIRV)

flipzi - July 10, 2006 08:41 AM (GMT)
Japan's own AEGIS-equipped Kongo-class ships.

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DDG Kongo Class
The Kongo Class is the 4th generation Guided Missile Destroyer (DDG) and has a different appearance and contents from previous Japanse DDG designs. The largest size among DDG and SPY-1D AEGIS radars equipped on the four faces of the bridge prove a capacity of this type. This class of four ships is complete, and assigned to 4 escort flotillas as the core ship.

The JMSDF maintains four Escort Flotilla, with each composed of 2-3 air-defense ships, including Kongo class AEGIS ship, and 5-6 anti-submarine destroyers, and 8 ASW helicopters, or as it is more commonly known, the 88 Formation. Japan has four of them, named 1st through 4th Escort Flottilla. Although the information processing ability and flagship ability of the Aegis warship is superior, the flagship of the Escort Flotilla is the DDH.

Japan was the first state (outside the United States) to acquire the superlative Aegis fleet defence system, fitted in the Kongo-class destroyers. The Aegis system's maximum detection distance, the number of simultaneously tracked targets, reaction time and missile range is superior in all points by comparison with the former Tartar system. The ASROC anti-submarine rocket, which is the anti-submarine weapon, along with the Standard anti-aircraft missile, are launched from the VLS (the vertical launch system) which is imbedded in the front and back section decks. The third unit of the class [Myoko] was the first with SM2MR Block III (the Block II was used on the first two ships). They are to receive New ASROC (presumedly ASROC with Japanese lightweight torpedo), and to be fitted with P/S(1)2 12.7mm or 20mm with night vision equipment.

The Kongo is an improved version of the U.S. Navy’s Arleigh Burke class, displacing 9,485 tons (full load). It is a substantial departure for Japan in terms of size and capability in its surface fleet. There also are qualitative differences between Japan’s modern ships with their well-trained crews and the older, less capable ships of other East and Southeast Asian navies.


MORE HERE: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/japan/kongo.htm

flipzi - July 10, 2006 09:29 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (YiYiYi @ Jul 10 2006, 04:40 PM)
really impressive ship system but it is really capable of shooting down ICBMs that can carry multiple warheads? i think not, its a system designed to defeat air-luanched, ship-launched, land-launched anti ship missiles and cruise missiles but not advanced ICBMS with multitple independently targeted reentry vehicles (MIRV)

That's a concern alright.

ICBMs usually fly high above the clouds which may make it hard for the AEGIS-equipped ships to intercept it. The missile will only descend or worse, set the next stage, which is launching multiple rockets from it's main body, when the missile is nearing its target. Just my analysis though, based on my limited knowledge on the system.

Nonetheless, NoKor is just near Japan. Probably the missiles coming from NoKor will be fired in the region nearest to Japan to lessen Japan's reaction time once the missile's flight is detected by Japan's radars.

With that, the missiles will be flying low considering the distance between NoKor and Japan.

With this scenario, the AEGIS and it's SM2 or better models, will be able to track and intercept the missile.

The only concern is that when the ICBM flies beyond the reach of the SM2 missiles while closing the gap.

Nonetheless, land-based missiles like the Patriots, may take over the task from the AEGIS ships of intercepting the missiles when the missiles get past the range of th ships.

I am not sure if the SM2 missile cant intercept ICBMs high above the clouds though.

Good thing is that an SM3 model, a similar platform that is being developed to handle ICBM threats are now in the pipeline.

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flipzi - July 10, 2006 09:41 AM (GMT)
Lookee here.....


RIM-161 SM-3 (AEGIS Ballistic Missile Defense)

Standard Missile-3 (SM-3) is being developed as part of the US Navy’s sea-based ballistic missile defense system and will provide theater-wide defense against medium and long range ballistic missiles. In 1992, the Terrier LEAP (Lightweight Exo-Atmospheric Projectile) demonstration program culminated in four flight tests and demonstrated the feasibility of theater-wide ballistic missile defense. This program evolved into today’s SM-3 development program which is based on the SM-2 Block IV airframe and propulsion stack, but incorporates a Third Stage Rocket Motor, a GPS/INS Guidance Section and the SM-3 Kinetic Warhead.

The United States Navy and the Missile Defense Agency are developing Standard Missile-3 (SM-3) as part of the Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System that will provide allied forces and U.S. protection from short to intermediate range ballistic missiles. The SM-3 Kinetic Warhead (KW) is designed to intercept an incoming ballistic missile outside the earth’s atmosphere. SM-3 is under development by Raytheon at its Missile Systems business unit in Tucson, Arizona.

.................

Raytheon's next hit-to-kill success with the sea-based STANDARD Missile-3 occurred on 11 December 2003. Between January 2002 and late 2004, the Aegis BMD system had successfully intercepted targets in space four times with SM-3. In all the flight tests, the SM-3 was launched from a US Navy cruiser under increasingly realistic, operational conditions.

On 24 February 2005 the Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense (BMD) Weapon System and Standard Missile-3 (SM-3) destroyed a ballistic missile outside the earth's atmosphere during an Aegis BMD Program flight test over the Pacific Ocean. The Feb. 24 mission -- the fifth successful intercept for SM-3 -- was the first firing of the Aegis BMD "Emergency Deployment" capability using operational versions of the SM-3 Block I missile and Aegis BMD Weapon System. This was also the first test to exercise SM-3's third stage rocket motor (TSRM) single-pulse mode. The TSRM has two pulses, which can be ignited independently, providing expansion of the ballistic missile engagement battlespace. The SM-3 was launched from the Aegis BMD cruiser USS Lake Erie (CG 70) and hit a target missile that had been launched from the U.S. Navy's Pacific Missile Range Facility on Kauai, Hawaii.



MORE:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/systems/sm3.htm

jammerjamesky - July 10, 2006 11:55 AM (GMT)
USS(CG 55) LEYTE GULFuser posted image
One of the Ticonderoga Class also

jammerjamesky - July 10, 2006 12:12 PM (GMT)
About the USS Ticonderoga Class Ship, when i looked at the security.org webpage
4 of them are already decommissioned started in the year 2004

USS(CG-47) Ticonderoga--- decom--- 30 Sept. 2004
USS(CG-48) Yorktown--- decom------ 03 Dec. 2004
USS(CG-49)Vincennes--- decom ----- 29 June 2005
USS (CG-50) Valley Forge---decom-- 30 Aug 2004

This ship are transferred to Inactive Ships Maintenance Facility in Philadelphia.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/sys.../cg-47-list.htm

israeli - July 10, 2006 01:37 PM (GMT)
^the USS Vincennes is known for that infamous incident wherein an Iran Air jet was shot down after it was mistaken for an IRIAF F-14A Tomcat.

hmmmmm... why look at those expensive Aegis-equipped guided-missile cruisers and destroyers when we can have an Aegis-equipped guided-missile corvette, the AFCON corvette, being built by Spanish shipbuilder Navantia?


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-- a CGI of the AFCON corvette.


more about the AFCON corvette from Navantia.

flipzi - July 11, 2006 12:51 AM (GMT)
Japan's Kongo classs, as the report said is more modern than even the Arleigh Burke- class.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/japan/kongo.htm ://http://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...apan/kongo.htm

I think this is worth looking into as well.

What about the Spain's own AEGIS ships? Our ties with Spain may be an advantage in getting this type.




spiderweb6969 - July 11, 2006 01:08 AM (GMT)
yep should get at least 6 of those ticonderoga.....

flipzi - July 11, 2006 02:55 AM (GMT)
Spidy,


Singapore seems to have such ships. Could you tell us about this?

How much does it cost? Does your country sell ships like such?

fizzy123 - July 11, 2006 04:05 AM (GMT)
Singapore dun have Aegis type warship for the reason of not trying to incite a armed race and there is no actual purpose for it. Having one of it will definitely be deemed as a aggressive move. But we do have a smaller and more diluted version of the la fayette frigate, the formidable class. True La fayettes are 130m while singapore type is onli 114m. Singapore Technologies(marine) seems to have mastered the skill of stealth as ST websites seems to advertise this 81m OPV or corvettes. :specool: :rifle:

el_ramon - July 11, 2006 05:49 AM (GMT)
This is the Formidable class frigate of Republic of Singapore:

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if you want to know more :
RSS Formidable

pretty 'formidable' ! specially the aster air-to-air missiles,apparently singapore is the only foreign market where france sold it!(i think,please correct me if im wrong here) wonder how much they paid for it.
the Herakles multi-function radar seems top notch but i havent read anything else about this radar other than tihs formidable application.

el_ramon - July 11, 2006 05:53 AM (GMT)

but! im pretty sure its nothing compared to this two:

The Netherlands De Zeven Provincien Class Frigate:

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if you want to know more:
De Zeven Provincien


el_ramon - July 11, 2006 05:55 AM (GMT)

And most of all Germany's Sachsen class (type 124) frigate:

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http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g301/pis...N_2002_0160.jpg

If you want to know more:
Sachsen Class


el_ramon - July 11, 2006 05:59 AM (GMT)

these last two,
De Zeven Provincien,Sachsen Class for me are the most potent
air/surface/sub-surface defense frigate on this planet's waters
for both of them share the same eyes.
The Thales Nederland SMART-L long-range air and surface surveillance and target indication radar, and Thales Nederland APAR Active Phased Array Radar.
and its a later design so better integration/automation,the american ship ticonderoga i think needs 350 crew to run!but the U.S.Navy is losing crew to attrition(end/none-renewal of crews contract to civil life).
The american AEGIS AN/SPY-1 is about unveil an upgraded version(i think ver F na ata but please correct me if im wrong).
also the SMART-L is about to introduce an upgrade.so that should assure thier investment :thumb: .
but theres a lot of life yet for the AEGIS for there a few foreign projects for it.

also to add to fizzy123, i think they already did!(start a small ASEAN naval arms race)or at least they fueled the fire when they announce the acquisition of the Formidable class.everybody seems to have the itch suddenly to buy ships.like the malaysia buying 6 Meko A100 corvettes with the option to buy 20 more!!!
heres what they look like: (yes they are already built by now,i swiped the pic from some Malaysian forum they said this is taken somewhere in langkawi if i remember it right.)
kedah class corvette:
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its a nice boat kung hindi lang grossly over priced($165m reported :wow: ) i would love for us to have it.
heh even us have the itch to buy.


israeli - July 11, 2006 06:00 AM (GMT)
comrade el ramon: the French sold the navalized Aster 15 surface-to-air missiles to the Saudis. the Royal Saudi Naval Forces purchased three Al Riyadh (modified La Fayette) class guided-missile frigates from French shipbuilder DCN some years ago.


perhaps you would like to re-size the photos of the Malaysian Mekos. :armywink:

el_ramon - July 11, 2006 06:13 AM (GMT)
israeli thanks i stand corrected the saudis have it.magkano kaya binayad nila for that.
it wont change sorry,it got away from me :crawling: .

el_ramon - July 11, 2006 06:29 AM (GMT)
resized pics of the corvette:
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israeli - July 11, 2006 06:30 AM (GMT)
comrade, just provide us the link to those photos instead of posting them here. i think it would help us do away with those HUGE photos. :armysmile:

flipzi - July 11, 2006 08:18 AM (GMT)
Fellows,


WE ARENT JUST DISCUSSING FRIGATES IN THIS PARTICULAR THREAD.

MAKE SURE THAT THE SHIPS YOU ARE SUGGESTING ARE SIMILAR, OR SOMEWHAT, TO THE AEGIS-EQUIPPED SHIPS.

Thanks.

====================================================

MORE INFO on the AEGIS:


Sea-Based Missile Defense:
Navy Theater Wide, AEGIS and Sea-based Global Missile Defense

Platforms

Two ship classes in the United States Navy currently field the AEGIS radar and weapons package- Ticonderoga-class guided missile cruisers and Arliegh Burke-class guided missile destroyers. Additionally, the Japanese Kongo-class destroyers and Spanish F-100 frigates also house the AEGIS system. Cooperation with allies will be an integral part of sea-based global missile defense as our ships will have to cruise far from home in the littoral waters surrounding possible hostile states armed with ballisitic missiles to enable boost phase intercepts. For more information on AEGIS platforms or to become involved in promoting one of the Navy's most capable platforms, visit the AEGIS Industrial Alliance and become a member.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Missiles: The Standard Missile

The Standard Missile is the Navy’s prime fleet-area air defense weapon and was developed to replace first generation Talos, Tartar and Terrier air defense missiles. It is a solid propellant-fueled, tail-controlled, surface to air missile fired by surface ships. The SM homes in on high-altitude anti-ship missiles during its terminal phase of flight by utilizing the Aegis Radar system and mid-course guidance with radar illumination of the target by the ship. The Standard Missile family plays a paramount role in the theater ballistic missile defense. There are several versions of the Standard Missile:

Developed in 1967 as the first generation Standard Missile, the SM-1 served as the primary missile of the U.S. Navy and several other navies. It is a home-all-the-way missile in medium and extended range versions designed for anti-air, anti-missile, and anti-ship warfare.

The latest generation of Standard Missile, SM-2, utilizes an imaging infrared seeker in terminal phase of flight. It maximizes advanced signal processing, communication techniques, and propulsion improvements to provide substantial increases in intercept range, high and low altitude intercept capability, and performance against advanced threats. The SM-2 employs a vertical launch system, Command Midcourse Guidance, an ECM resistant monopulse receiver for semi-active radar terminal guidance, and a blast fragmentation warhead. The SM-2 provides medium range defense for Ticondergoa-class AEGIS cruisers, Arleigh Burke-class AEGIS destroyers, California and Virginia-class nuclear cruisers and some Kidd-class destroyers.

In order to meet the NTW and the Sea-Based Global Missile Defense roles, the Standard Missile will have to be modified. One such modification, increasing the speed of the missile, will be easily achieved as the current deployed version of the Standard has been intentionally slowed-down so that it does not risk violating the restrictions of the ABM treaty. See this PDF file to see modifications that will have to be made to upgrade the Standard.


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Radars and Sensors

SPY-1D Phased Array Radar


The backbone of the AEGIS Weapons System is the SPY-1D phased array radar. SPY-1D is the most technologically advanced radar in the world, able to track marble-sized targets in excess of 100 miles. All the targets tracked by the SPY radar are monitored by the ship's Command and Decision system. If a target is determined to be a threat, the ship's crew can issue orders through the Weapons Control System, and engage the target with missiles, guns, and/or CIWS.Significant funding is being allocated by the US Navy to upgrade or modify existing SPY-1D Aegis systems aboard the US Navy's CG-47 guided missile cruisers and DDG-51 destroyers to accomplish the TBMD function to meet US Navy requirements. These upgrades to the Aegis system consist of improved or new missiles, improved and new radars, and significant modifications to the software. SPY-1D is the only radar being considered by the US Navy today for upgrade to accommodate a TBMD capability.

Sensors

The primary sensor for naval TBMD active defense will be the Aegis SPY radar. Its TBM-tracking capabilities are being explored and expanded through the use of new computer software that will produce a TBMD-capable Aegis system. Thus altered, SPY radars have "demonstrated the ability to track TBMs at ranges well in excess of 500km."

COMPLETE DETAIL:

http://www.highfrontier.org/sdiSystemArch_seaItems.html

flipzi - July 11, 2006 11:33 AM (GMT)
Aegis in other navies

Japan operates four Kongo class destroyers of a modified Arleigh Burke design, with three more planned by 2010 as a result of Japan's fleet review.
Spain is currently operating four Alvaro de Bazán class Aegis frigates, with at least two in commission.
Norway is procuring five units of Spanish design and manufacture, as the Fridtjof Nansen class. The first unit of this type, Fridtjof Nansen, was launched on June 3, 2004.
South Korea is building Aegis variants of its KDX destroyers, called KDX-III.
Australia, under its Sea 4000 project to acquire three Air Warfare Destroyers, decided in August 2004 that the Aegis warfare system would be the core of the combat system for the new ships.

MORE: http://www.answers.com/topic/aegis-combat-system


Other interesting topic;

Report to US Congress on Theater Missile Defense Architecture Options for the Asia-Pacific Region

http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:Ri8r7Y...ph&ct=clnk&cd=6

israeli - July 13, 2006 05:33 PM (GMT)
i just came across this thought while reading this thread...

would it really be necessary for the PN to buy Aegis-equipped warships (the AFCON corvette included)?

for me, a simple guided-missile corvette equipped with eight MM40 Exocet anti-ship missiles, two four-cell Tetral launchers for Mistral air defense missiles, one 76 mm OTO Melara main gun, two 20 mm cannons and six 12.75 inch tubes for anti-submarine torpedoes would be "initimidating enough" to potential adversaries since such ships, although modestly-armed, still have the necessary firepower to cause significant damage.

if the rationale for buying Aegis-equipped warships is to protect the Philippines from the onslaught of ballistic missiles such as Scuds and Taepodongs, i guess we would just have to invest on land-based air defense batteries such as the Patriot air defense system and the S-300PMU1/S-300V air defense system instead of getting overly expensive Aegis-equipped warships. :dunno:

flipzi - July 14, 2006 12:46 PM (GMT)
Good point in there, Israeli.

Actually, my motive was to emphasize the capability of the AEGIS system first. When we are through with it or when we are satisfied enough about what this is all about, then we may move on to the next aspect, which is finding out the best setup for our cash-strapped govt.

My idea, since the AFP is programmed to buy OPVs and other ships later, is to add the possibility of buying ships that may not be exactly as powerful as the new AEGIS-equipped ships of the US and Japan or better yet, find an OPV with which a system similar to AEGIS is already integrated into.

And yes, we can analyze now how many land-based SAMs and ship-based SAMs should we set in place.

el_ramon - July 14, 2006 10:17 PM (GMT)
ehe since this is a AEGIS thread,maybe this..

Venezuela is getting 4 new corvettes based on SPY-1K
(smaller ver. of the SPY-1F and more smaller ver. of SPY-1D)

Venezuela's corvette

kinda funny with the Bush/Hugo Chavez spat but their getting the SPY-1 radar hehe


israeli - July 15, 2006 03:50 PM (GMT)
^ that will not be possible. with the Americans already barring the sale of SPY-1Ks to the Venezuelans, the Spaniards are already selling "modified" AFCON corvettes to their former colony in South America.

jammerjamesky - July 16, 2006 05:09 PM (GMT)
Comrades, what is the best Phased Aray System ?

1. AEGIS- used by US/JAPAN/SPAIN

2. EMPAR-used by FRANCE/ITALY

3. APAR- used by DUTCH/GERMAN

4. SAMPSON- used by UK

phichanad - July 16, 2006 05:11 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (jammerjamesky @ Jul 17 2006, 01:09 AM)
Comrades, what is the best Phased Aray System ?

1. AEGIS- used by US/JAPAN/SPAIN

2. EMPAR-used by FRANCE/ITALY

3. APAR- used by DUTCH/GERMAN

4. SAMPSON- used by UK

AEGIS i think...

jammerjamesky - July 17, 2006 02:36 AM (GMT)
^ We better discuss here the radar's and its system here. Since we already touch AEGIS specially SPY-1 radar. why dont we include other ship based multi-function radars such as:

[/QUOTE]
1. AEGIS(AN/SPY-1D and its variant) - used by US/JAPAN/SPAIN

2. EMPAR - used by FRANCE/ITALY

3. APAR - used by DUTCH/GERMAN

4. SAMPSON - used by UK
[QUOTE]

the reason why i would like to push thru this very specific radar system is to gain better understanding onboard ship or ship based radar system.This will benefit us and will be usefull for the future of the Philippine Navy.

We can give more scrutiny and atleast on what kind or specific radar system for ships and its alternative. The most reasonable purchased for 3rd world countrys(like Philippines) in case we would like to obtain this units. the implications of US government restriction of getting the SPY-1D radar system for the 3rd world country is very obvious. This is why i brought the other ship based radar system to be discussed since we touch it already.

Im hoping that we can disect one system at a time to become fruitfull in our search for better radar system.






City Hunter - July 17, 2006 04:56 AM (GMT)
Ask ko lang, any new updates on how they reload these while on a mission? Most of those that I encountered about it is that it takes time to reload and forget it if its rough seas condition.

jammerjamesky - July 18, 2006 01:45 AM (GMT)

APAR(Active Phased Array Radar)
User: Netherlands, Germany, Canada

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APAR Shines Again in Live Firing Tests
26 April 2005 11:04

Once again, the Thales Anti Air Warfare suite proved its status as most advanced naval defence system in the world.

During live missile firing tests held by the Royal Netherlands Navy (RNLN) in March 2005, the APAR radar system successfully guided two Evolved SeaSparrow Missiles (ESSM) and two Standard Missiles (SM2) simultaneously to various targets, destroying them all.

In March of this year the RNLN performed three test scenarios on board of “De Zeven Provinciën”, the first of class of the new Air Defence and Command frigates, in the vicinity of the island of Madeira. The tests constituted an absolute first in any test firing: APAR engaged two drones by guiding four missiles simultaneously to the targets, using only one of its four faces. And thanks to the system's short reaction time and high accuracy, this face did not nearly reach its maximum capacity, leaving plenty of room for even more engagements. Based on Interrupted Continuous Wave Illumination (ICWI), the system’s performance in these tests unambiguously proves APAR's capability to protect fleets and other objects at open sea, or in a littoral environment, against a multitude of air threats. APAR's performance in these tests constitutes a milestone in naval defence. No other ship in the world has ever shown this kind of engagement capability.

Previous tests with ICWI guidance technique
The first missile tests of APAR were held in November 2003, also on board of “De Zeven Provinciën”. In August 2004, the Air Defence and Command Frigate "Sachsen", the first of class of the German Navy F124 frigates, successfully tested the system as well. These tests consisted of firing 21 SM-2 and ESSM missiles against several types of threats. They unequivocally demonstrated the system's capability against multiple targets.

APAR
APAR, Thales' Active Phased Array Radar, is the world's most sophisticated multi-function radar. Its non-rotating antenna houses four faces that together cover the full 360 degrees. Each face consists of more than 3000 very small radar transmitter/receiver (T/R) elements, giving the radar its unique capabilities and high operational availability. The inherent agility of APAR guarantees a high performance in the most adverse conditions, under severe electronic protection measures. APAR makes use of Interrupted Continuous Wave Illuminations (ICWI) technology, a concept that has been developed in the international Tri-lateral Frigate Cooperation formed by the Netherlands, Germany and Canada. This technology enables APAR to simultaneously guide multiple missiles to one or more threats. The ICWI technology has recently been contracted to the Japanese Maritime Self-Defence Force.

About Thales
Thales is an international electronics and systems group serving defence, aerospace, security and services markets. The Group employs 60,000 people worldwide and generated revenues of 10.3 billion euros in 2004.

An important task of APAR is to detect flying objects. Detected objects are taken in track by APAR. The Command and Control System of an ADCF has to identify detected objects. Objects that are identified as being hostile are called targets and are possibly engaged by the ADCF. In case of an engagement, the Advanced Weapon Control System chooses the weapon system and salvo size and determines the engagement moment. In case of an engagement by missiles, APAR has to guide the missiles to the target and has to verify whether the intercept has been successful or not.

Objectives
The objectives of this study are to develop and evaluate algorithms for the scheduling of the tasks an APAR and for the determination of engagement moments of defensive missiles.

Detailed problem description Scheduling
APAR consists of four faces, each covering a sector of approximately 100 degrees. A face is practically independent of the other three faces.
A face of APAR has to execute several tasks. Three types of tasks have to be executed continuously:
target track to keep targets in track,
horizon search to detect undetected objects and
low priority track to keep e.g. friendly aircraft in track.
Furthermore, a number of tasks have to be executed during each engagement of a missile against a target. The most important tasks are

missile track,
midcourse guidance (to guide the missile to the target during the first part of the engagement),
terminal illumination (to guide the missile to the target during the final part of the engagement), and
kill assessment (to verify whether the engagement has been successful or not).
It is possible that APAR can not completely execute the search task during busy periods. In such cases, APAR can process information on objects supplied by other detection systems, called cueing. In this way, APAR can track objects that were not detected by APAR itself.

Each task consists of a series of dwells that have to be transmitted (a dwell train). The length of a dwell, called the dwell time, and the desired time between the begin of transmission of two consecutive dwells, called the update time interval, are given per task.
The scheduling problem for one face of APAR is, given the periods during which the tasks have to be executed, to determine the transmission moments of the dwells so that dwells are not transmitted simultaneously. Simultaneous transmission of dwells is, apart from some exceptions, impossible. It is possible that each schedule that meets this requirement cannot transmit all dwells, or cannot satisfy all desired update time intervals. In such cases, the deviations from the desired dwell patterns have to be as small as possible.

Engagement moments
Engagement moments form input for the scheduler of APAR. The influence of the engagement moments on the quality of the schedule can be substantial. In the determination of the engagement moments, one has to take into account that loads should not be too large and that overlaps between periods during which incompatible tasks have to be executed, are not too large. Also other aspects are important in the determination of the engagement moments, e.g. the kill probability of a missile, which depends on the range at which intercept takes place.
Insights obtained with the model SEAPAR will be used in the high-level model SEAROADS (Simulation, Evaluation, Analysis and Research On Air Defence Systems). This model can analyse the all-in performance of maritime air defence systems, including hard kill and soft kill systems. SEAROADS can be used at single ship level, it also enables the study of co-operative air defence of a task group.

http://www.tno.nl/defensie_en_veiligheid/d...duling_and_eva/

el_ramon - July 21, 2006 11:39 AM (GMT)

AEGIS daw... (basahin nyo na lang)

China's AEGIS Class

sana i-post nila sa internet (P2P) yung file..hehe joke lang.


el_ramon - July 23, 2006 05:40 AM (GMT)
jammerjamesky,

like what i said on the previous page,for me the most potent radar around is oviously APAR multi-funtion radar/ SMART-L sulveilance radar combination.

there are two kinds of "phased array radar":
1.passive phased array radar (PPAR)
2.active phased array radar (APAR)

the AEGIS system uses the SPY-1 radar developed in the 1970's uses the PPAR set-up.
for at the time active phased array T-R module's price is too expensive,
making a radar out of it is out of the question.
the AEGIS system's greatest strength is the systems maturity.
but it's not perfect.(il just quote fas.org)

STRENGTHS
*ANSPY-1 multifunction, phased array, fire control quality radar.
*Very rapid transition from SPY-1 silent to full radiate and full situational awareness.
*Fast reaction, fully/semiautomatic combat systems. Initial detection to first missile movement in less than 10 sec.
*Salvo rate of less than 2 sec per launcher (CG-52 and above with MK 41 VLS)
Mix of multiple SMs.
*Max field of fire and min blockage zones
*Must illuminate target only for a short duration prior to intercept.
*AN/SPY-1 radar variable sensitivity feature allowing radar sensitivity to be tailored to threat RCS, environment, and tactical situation.
*Weapons & ID doctrine capable of automatic and semiautomatic response/action.
*Doctrine software assists w/ ID

WEAKNESSES
*The system is designed for blue water and littoral operations however AN/SPY-1 configuration must be modified to look above the terrain to avoid causing excessive false targets from land clutter. These configuration changes may increase ship susceptibility to low and fast targets.
*Once a target is engaged and the initial salvo fired, WCS will not allow the target to be reengaged (second salvo) until a kill evaluation has been completed.
*AN/SPY-1 antenna height is lower than the AN/SPS-49 radar system resulting in reduced radar horizon.
*DDG-51 Class are not equipped with a AN/SPS-49 radar (no secondary air search radar)
*Must hold an AN/SPY-1 track. Cannot engage on a remote or AN/SPS-49 track unless equipped with CEC.

it's greatest claim to fame for me is when it mistook an Iranian Airbus A310 civilian airliner fulll of passengers as a attacking fighter and shot it down resulting in 290 civilian fatalities.

nowadays the APAR technologies are maturing.and they are peeking in function!
(hence unproven)

now we get to see Thales APAR,MRR,etc..
we are talking about APAR naval radars here but it is basically the same as aviation's AESA radar as T-R modules are maturing like Northrop Grumman AN/APG-80 of the F-16 block 60.

APAR is basically microchip modules (T-R modules) combined together to make the radar face.
so there's no central transmiter/wave guide like in the old radars.
each module can make it's beam swing left-to-right,up-down.
as you've already posted above the virtues / features of Thales APAR.
it is also both PPAR/APAR have a longer lifespan
apar tends to decay gracefully..when one t-r module dies,theres still thousands operating!
can scan and change scan mode at the speed-of-light..since theres no mechanical gimbal to point the beam and scan pattern to satisty a particullar scan mode.

and more,kayo na magtuloy.

edwin - July 31, 2006 11:16 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (jammerjamesky @ Jul 17 2006, 10:36 AM)
^ We better discuss here the radar's and its system here. Since we already touch AEGIS specially SPY-1 radar. why dont we include other ship based multi-function radars such as:


1. AEGIS(AN/SPY-1D and its variant) - used by US/JAPAN/SPAIN

2. EMPAR - used by FRANCE/ITALY

3. APAR - used by DUTCH/GERMAN

4. SAMPSON - used by UK
QUOTE


the reason why i would like to push thru this very specific radar system is to gain better understanding onboard ship or ship based radar system.This will benefit us and will be usefull for the future of the Philippine Navy.

We can give more scrutiny and atleast on what kind or specific radar system for  ships and its alternative. The most reasonable purchased for 3rd world countrys(like Philippines) in case we would like to obtain this units. the implications of US government restriction of getting the SPY-1D radar system for the 3rd world country is very obvious. This is why i brought the other ship based radar system to be discussed since we touch it already.

Im hoping that we can disect one system at a time to become fruitfull in our search for better radar system.

Im just curious who among those radar listed that can perform and destroy more detected targets whether short or long range in Simultaneous engagement??

cheers :armycheers: Peace to all.

flipzi - August 1, 2006 07:43 AM (GMT)
video of Japan's AEGIS ships

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGL7cfpT6aM&search=japanese


Standard Missile 3 (SM3) intercepting another missile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q99gezPCX7I&search=aegis

israeli - August 2, 2006 04:49 PM (GMT)
i really do not think we need Aegis-equipped warships. i believe that a multi-purpose corvette equipped with either vertical launched ESSM or Barak or short-range SAMs such as Mistral or RAM would work well with the Philippine Navy. in fact, i have always adhered to the idea of the PN having a fleet of multi-purpose corvettes equipped with eight MM40 Exocet SSMs, two four-cell Tetral SAM launchers for Mistral missiles, one OTO Melara 76 mm Super Rapido main gun, two MSI Defense 25 mm guns and six 12.75 tubes for ASW torpedoes for its surface combatant force.

if our only concern for having Aegis-equipped warships is due to the threat being posed by ballistic missiles, then perhaps such concern can be addressed by acquiring land-based SAM systems such as the Patriot and the S-300PMU2.

el_ramon - August 5, 2006 08:37 PM (GMT)

i think this is the fair comparison of the APAR radar..
AN/SPY-3 Multi-Function Radar
both do search,illumination function in one,
both X-band (as i remember apar does but correct me if im wrong)
but limited info available for SPY-3MFR.


flipzi - August 6, 2006 01:10 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (israeli @ Aug 3 2006, 12:49 AM)
i really do not think we need Aegis-equipped warships. i believe that a multi-purpose corvette equipped with either vertical launched ESSM or Barak or short-range SAMs such as Mistral or RAM would work well with the Philippine Navy. in fact, i have always adhered to the idea of the PN having a fleet of multi-purpose corvettes equipped with eight MM40 Exocet SSMs, two four-cell Tetral SAM launchers for Mistral missiles, one OTO Melara 76 mm Super Rapido main gun, two MSI Defense 25 mm guns and six 12.75 tubes for ASW torpedoes for its surface combatant force.

if our only concern for having Aegis-equipped warships is due to the threat being posed by ballistic missiles, then perhaps such concern can be addressed by acquiring land-based SAM systems such as the Patriot and the S-300PMU2.

good point.

that's fitting for our short to medium term plan, if there is such.

but since our purchases will only come around 10 years later, then it's still practical to get several AEGIS-equipped ships for our fleet.

land-based missile interceptors will be essential.



MSantor - May 9, 2008 05:46 AM (GMT)
Pretty shocking. The link below is to an interactive screen that shows the defects of the USS Stout and USS Chosin. I'm surprised that this story, which is nearly two weeks old, has not been posted here yet.

http://www.militarytimes.com/projects/ship...t_chosin_stout/

QUOTE
Navy destroyers found unfit for combat

NORFOLK, Va., April 21 (UPI) -- Two highly sophisticated U.S. Navy warships with guns and missiles that can't be fired have been rated unfit for combat, a U.S. newspaper reported Monday.

The Navy Times, owned by the Gannett newspaper chain, said it obtained Board of Inspection and Survey reports showing the warships' Aegis radar systems didn't work property, flight decks were inoperable, and most of their missiles or big guns couldn't be fired. The destroyer USS Stout, based in Norfolk, Va., and the cruiser USS Chosin, based at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, also are rusty and leaking oil, the newspaper said.

The reports ruled both vessels "unfit for sustained combat operations," the Navy Times said. While several Navy ships receive such ratings each year, it is unusual for two Aegis-equipped ships to fall into such disrepair, the Navy Times said.

"This is worse than I remember seeing," a recently retired surface flag officer told the Navy Times after reading the reports. "I don't remember seeing two that stood out like these."

Other retired officers voiced similar opinions, including a retired admiral who said, "There's enough commonality between the two to make me think there's an endemic problem in the force."

The newspaper said the ships' commanding officers couldn't be reached for comment.

MSantor - October 12, 2009 07:02 PM (GMT)
A fitting name then.

QUOTE

Newest DDG Honors the 'Father' of Aegis System
Bittersweet Remembrances Mark Namesake Ship's Commissioning
By christopher p. cavas
Published: 12 Oct 2009 05:29 

PHILADELPHIA, Pa. - It was 1983 when the U.S. Navy commissioned its first Aegis warship, the cruiser Ticonderoga. Twenty-six sister ships followed, and in 1991, the first Aegis destroyer, the Arleigh Burke, raised its commissioning pennant. The Navy is still building Arleigh Burke-class destroyers, with no end in sight.

Every one of those 84 ships shared a singular, personal, common thread - in attendance at each commissioning ceremony was the man known throughout the service as the "father" of Aegis, the world's most advanced naval combat system. The father was always there to watch over his latest newborn children, and despite advancing years and declining health, Rear Adm. Wayne Meyer made it a point to be present at the birth of every Aegis ship.

Every ship - until the one that bore his own name.

"It is sad, but almost fitting in a way, that the first commissioning muster he misses is that of his namesake," Adm. Mike Mullen, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told an audience gathered in Philadelphia on Oct. 10 to commission the USS Wayne E. Meyer, the Navy's newest warship.

Like many in attendance, Mullen, the nation's highest-ranking military officer, had once served on an Aegis warship, commanding the cruiser Yorktown, the second Aegis cruiser. Many in the crowd laughed in recognition when Mullen called Meyer "uniquely cantankerous" and nodded knowingly when he noted that "Wayne E. Meyer was never satisfied."

"I lived with a legend," said Anna Mae Meyer, the admiral's widow and the ship's sponsor, and few would argue.

Meyer died Sept. 1 at age 83 of congestive heart failure, only five weeks before the ship bearing his name entered service.

"He was fighting to be here today. He said that he just wanted to make it to the commissioning," said Edward Seixas, Meyer's stepson.

Meyer's drive and determination were repeatedly cited as reasons why the Aegis system was successfully developed. He was "the chief visionary of our surface fleet," Mullen, a former chief of naval operations (CNO), said.

"He singlehandedly revolutionized warfighting," Mullen declared. "He saw the value of integrated warfighting systems," combining radars, sonars, weapons systems and computers. Integrated systems "are prolific today in all services," Mullen said, "but it started here."

"Many of the speakers here had a long relationship with Admiral Meyer," said Allison Stiller, the Navy's chief shipbuilding executive, and nearly everyone had a personal anecdote.

"I can still here him say, 'You can't predict the future so you better be damned ready for it,'" said Fred Moosally, a retired Navy captain and head of Lockheed Martin's Maritime Systems and Sensors division, which makes the Aegis system.

Bath Iron Works president Jeff Geiger, whose shipyard built the new destroyer, recalled that when Meyer visited the ship during the christening ceremony in October 2008, he was having trouble getting around the ship and was offered the use of a wheelchair. Meyer gruffly declined, saying, "I'll walk on, and I'll walk off."

Other speakers characterized Meyer as "stubborn" and a "giver of prolific advice."

"No naval officer in recent history displayed innovative leadership as Wayne Meyer," said Adm. Gary Roughead, chief of naval operations, who was the first commanding officer of the USS Barry, the second Aegis destroyer. "He has one powerful legacy."

The audience at the ceremony, held at Penn's Landing on the Philadelphia waterfront, included an impressive wealth of brass hats, among them Australia's chief of Navy, Vice Adm. Russ Crane. Australia's first three Aegis warships now are under construction, and the addition of the combat system to the Australian Navy "is an enormous step into modern warfare applications," Crane said.

Rear Adm. Brad Hicks, head of the Navy's Aegis ballistic missile defense (BMD) program, observed that "people thought Meyer was inflexible" in his views.

Aegis was developed, among other priorities, to deal with the complexities of massed attacks by Soviet aircraft and missiles. But over the past decade, a BMD capability has been added, and Aegis BMD ships now are operational, functioning in a realm no one envisioned when Meyer began overseeing the project in the 1970s.

Meyer "wasn't sure at first about adding BMD," Hicks said, but he saw that the mission could evolve and "soon became enthusiastic."

Looking around at the plethora of Aegis officers, Hicks acknowledged that "this will be a fairly emotional day for a lot of people."

"It's really something when the people you mentored are the CNO and the Chairman and a host of three and four-star admirals," said Rear Adm. Jim McManamon, Deputy Commander for Surface Warfare. "It's a pretty amazing legacy."

The choice of Philadelphia as the setting for the commissioning ceremony was made personally by Meyer. Moorestown, N. J., about 14 miles away, is where Lockheed builds the Aegis system.

"That's where it started, that's where it should be," Seixas quoted his stepfather as saying. Meyer had hoped that a number of Lockheed employees would attend the ceremony.

David Rochlis, a video producer for Lockheed, said "Admiral Meyer is the reason I'm working here." Rochlis was hired in 1978, he said, "because Meyer wanted the Aegis program well documented."

Meyer "fought hard to get Aegis built," Rochlis recalled. "He used to go around everywhere selling Aegis. It was important to get support for the program. If it wasn't for him, who knows if Aegis would ever have been built."

Earlier, Lockheed executive Chris Bova, who knew and worked with Meyer for over 20 years, recalled him as a "bigger than life character" who "could be gruff with people, but he never made it personal. It was about encouraging engineering precepts. He would make people want to come back and show the old man they could do it. It was about doing the job the best they could, and if they weren't he would embolden them to do so."

"I loved him, even when he was beating up on me," Bova said wistfully.

Many veterans in attendance wore ball caps from the destroyer Goodrich and cruiser Galveston, ships that Meyer served on. There also were a number of veterans from the Ticonderoga Association, recalling the first Aegis warship.

And while the choice of Philadelphia had much to do with the nearby Lockheed facility, the location was dripping with naval and maritime tradition. In sight of the Wayne E. Meyer was the cruiser Olympia, flagship of Commodore George Dewey at the Battle of Manila Bay in 1898. Directly across the Delaware River was the battleship New Jersey, a combat veteran of World War II, Korea and Vietnam. Volunteers who man the battleship fired a gun salute to the new destroyer during the ceremony.

Just down river could be seen the huge funnels of the liner United States, perhaps the greatest merchant ship ever built in the U.S., and around a bend in the river was the former Philadelphia Naval Shipyard, where the Navy keeps a number of decommissioned ships - including the Ticonderoga and Mullen's Yorktown.

And while the day's tributes flowed to Wayne Meyer, son Robert Meyer said afterward that the family hoped the day "would really be for the crew of the ship."

Cmdr. Nick Sarap, the Wayne E. Meyer's commanding officer, and his crew "were there for him," Robert Meyer said. "They really made the difference."

The ceremony included a poignant moment when son James was piped on board bearing one of his father's naval hats, to the announcement of, "Wayne E. Meyer spirit, arriving."

Sarap then took a salute from executive officer Lt. Cmdr. Robert Brooks, and turned to address the CNO.

"Admiral Roughead, USS Wayne E. Meyer is in commission, and I am in command."

The new destroyer now is headed for its homeport of San Diego.





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