1. Brig. Gen. Danilo Lim, former FSSR commander;
2. Lt. Col. Nestor Flordeliza, former chief of staff;
3. Lt. Col. Edmundo Malabanjot, former battalion commander;
4. Maj. Jason Aquino, former operations chief,
5. Maj. Oriel Pangcog, former operations chief;
6. Maj. Jose Leomar Doctolero;
7. Capt. George Malones;
8. Capt. Allan Aurino; Capt. James Sababan;
9. Capt. Ruben Guinolbay, former personnel chief;
10. Capt. Montano Almodovar;
11. Capt. Joey Fontiveros;
12. Capt Isagani Criste;
13. Capt. William Upano;
14. Capt Dante Langkit;
15. Capt. Frederick Sales;
16. 1Lt. Homer Estolas;
17. 1Lt. Jerald Reyes;
18. 1Lt. Ervin Divinagracia;
19. 1Lt. Michael Cuarteros;
20. 1Lt. Jacon Cordero;
21. 1Lt. Mario Bautista;
22. 1Lt. Antonio Timbal;
23. 1Lt. Zandro Sereno; and
24. 2Lt. Ritchiemel Caballes.

I would suggest a speedy court martial then sentence all to death by firing squad so others may think twice before joining future selfish power grab attempts! :rifle:

ang lupet mo pareng wingblast, wag naman, wawa mga misis at nobya nila he he he - better 1000 cane lashes sa puwet na lang at siguradong titino na ang mga yan - sa Luneta gawin para masaya.

:lollol: ROLFMAO!

I just cant imagine Gen. Lim being whupped in the ass in public and on live television !

Rather than creating chaos and destroying the economy better take this offer:

http://pdff.sytes.net/index.php?showtopic=3368

I agree with you saver, makatulong pa sila sa pag angat ng dollar reserve natin.

They should be given a choice, court martial or to work as mercenary in Iraq

And to add, the U.N. right now are asking for Peacekeepers. Better give them this opportunity also and reflect on what their doing, seeing places at war with the task of keeping the peace on their hands.

Mga brod wag naman ganyan, mga SR na nagpopost dito di na nga nagcocomment, wag naman natin husgahan lahat sila at laiitin, tulad nyo may sarili din silang mga kadihilanan.

Kung titingnan nyo records ng mga yan, halos sila ang mga commanders that accounts almost half of the annual successes ng army from 1998 to 2005. Bigyan naman natin sila ng kaunting respeto sa kanilang mga nai alay noon. Mahina ang isang gold cross at purple heart ang bawat isa sa mga iyan. Stick with the issue, if all can politely oblige. Yung kung pwede lang naman makiusap.

the politicians are simply afraid of the principled military officers. once a coup becomes a success, the politicians' happy and corrupt days are over and they will head the way once travelled by Marie Antoinette and Nicolai Ceausescu. :demon:

and what makes you think that these so-called principled military officers will not be as corrupt as the civilian government they are planning to replace?

what kind of principle is that when they are more than willing enough to consort with the NePs just to fulfill their power grabbing obhectives?

surehitter, i'm sorry for your SR buddies on the list, but havent you paused to think that there are also OTHER OFFICERS and SOLDIERS with gold cross, purple heart, MoV who remained steadfast and loyal to the civilian government and the constitution?

wala naman masama kung makisalo sa politics mga sundalo. kung ayaw nila sa government e di sabihin nila. pero bago nila gawin iyon, mag resign muna sila sa kanilang propesyon bilang sundalo.

[QUOTE=wingblast,Jul 29 2006, 11:51 AM]I would suggest a speedy court martial then sentence all to death by firing squad so others may think twice before joining future selfish power grab attempts!

Gentlemen, we must all think twice before arriving at our conclusions. We must not rely on passed-on informations which are already filtered for "you-know-what" purposes. In the democratic world, even the most wicked people are given fair trial (Saddam, Milosevic and the genocidal NAZIs)---NOT THE TRIAL BY PUBLICITY WE ARE TRYING TO IMPLEMENT HERE.

Guys, if you have not committed any violations to our existing laws (e.g., tax evasion, jaywalking, DUI, stealing funds) or if you have not committed any transgressions to the TEN COMMANDMENTS of GOD, I will let you shoot them at Luneta and proclaim to the world that you are best breed of men in this country.

Dahan-dahan tayo sa ating mga pananalita, baka mas marami pa tayong KASALANAN sa mga opisyal na ito! :nono:

:closed:

hinay hinay lang tayo sa judgments natin mga bai

but as far as im concerned, after the proper trial has been done, those found to be truly and really guilty should be meted out the punishment stipulated in the law.
especially those officers who were really involved in conniving with the communists, it would be an insult to their comrades wh died fighting the npa if they will just be given light sentences, they have given more sinister meaning to the word traydor.

Pre, we remain loyal to the constitution and the chain of command with my colleagues, most are gold crossers, pero dapat din ba namin husgahan ang mga officers na naghubog sa amin. Pasensiya ka na but I have to sympathize with their plight, I have never seen a group of men with uncompromising integrity than the list.

Alam mo bok, dalawa lang ang nakakuha ng medalya sa AFP, ang lawin at ang buwitre. Kung buwitre lang pinapaconsider nyo, Carcass eating meat grinders are not due a few brain cells!

Ngunit, ang hinihiling ko lang naman, habang wala pang kauukulang hakbang ang husgado militar, bilang kurtesiya sa aming mga SR dito , dahan dahan lang sa opinyon na baka mali naman ang nababasa at naririnig ninyo o kundi naman ang nabubuong konklusyon sa inyong isipan. Baka tinutukoy nyo ibang unit ang nakikipagusap sa neps hindi SR. Bigyan lang po natin ng kaunting perspective, hindi po iisa yun.

let him who has no sin cast the first stone... :banana:

mahirap yung position nang mga officers involved, it does not mean that they actually involved directly, we should also be open minded that "implications" had a big part of this. there is too much "politicking" that you cannot get accurate info. let us still give these officers involved the respect they deserve for serving our country. sanamagan!!!!!!!!!!!!! :armyfrown:

many of the SR officers are not on the list because they remained loyal to the government, but many also are not on the list because they were prevented from aiding Gen. Lim by the regular, non-elite (for lack of a better term), not-so-kickass (at least compared to the mighty SRs) soldiers of the 7thID who cordoned the SR camp.

thats why the little lady in Malacañang is soooo grateful of Gen. Palparan. :armywink:

That's too much, brother.

You should put it across not in a way that fuels distrust between us and the concerned people.

This forum is meant to provide "reasonable solutions and impartial analysis or scrutiny on all issues raised here" but without discouraging the persons concerned to set things right despite of the incidents.

Hitting the issues your way is NOT helping the country, because it excites further anger and distrust, ..... and is unprofessional.

Do it right next time, wingblast.

BTW, let me add this one.

"IF YOU WANNA SOLVE THE PROBLEM INVOLVING PERSONS,...

... TRY TO UNDERSTAND THEIR SIDE FIRST....

... YOU MAY GO EVEN DEEPER BY REALIZING THE ENVIRONMENT THEY ARE IN. ...

.... WITH THOSE FACTORS, ANALYZE WHY THEY ACT OR THINK LIKE THAT.

You have to be knowledgeable and REASONABLE enough if you want to get the appropriate results and the right solutions to that problem." Else, you'll end up aggravating the whole problem instead.


Wingblast, try to help solve the problem. Dont make it worse. :armywink:

Seems applicable to ALL CONCERNED.

In the end be responsible too for your actions. :aberet:

Pre nandun ka ba? The 7ID mainforce arrived at 10AM, nagkakape mga SR officers sa BoQ at nakastanddown ang mga tropa, business as usual. The 7ID men out of paranoia, did not even dared to transit the San Miguel-Sibul Road.
No one even bothered to setup a roadblock in San Miguel in the early morning. Kung gumalaw ang regiment, nakalusot na sana yun by that time.

Point there is, the 7ID men did not get close to camp tecson and provoke an incident and elevate the matter and I think they made the right choice. Pag ginawa nila yun de facto involved buong regiment regardless of political issue. The SR officers were laughing about the "cordoned report".

This is what we are saying, what you heard or seen on TV is not what actually happened, hayaan nyo na muna ang husgado mag sort out sa mga bagay na yan.

Napanood ko yung documentary ni Robert McNamara's"Fog of War", ang sabi niya, "you have to emphatize to the situation of your adversary to understand what your adversary is facing".

Di kami nanghihingi ng empathy, sobra na yun para hingin, kaunting benefit of the doubt lang okay na mga taga SR.

Hindi pa natin alam ano personal circumstance bakit na implicate ang nasa listahan. For all u know, baka na implicate lang dahil sa mga statements or mga ginawa nila noon at binabalikan na lang sila ngayon dahil marami na silang na offend for carrying their duties. Kung wari ay ganun, kasalanan ba yun?

Nasasaktan ang kalooban naming mga taga SR wari nagiging "pawn" ang aming mga seniors na ginagamit sa ambition ng ilang katauhan.

Ang masasabi ko lang, iyan ang mga taong wala inisip kundi kapakanan ng mga sundalo at babanggain kahit heneral ka kung mali ang ginagawa mo. Kung taga SR ka, alam mo na yan ang mga SR Officers na pumapalag sa maling opn directives kung alam nila ikamamatay ng kanilang mga tropa. Wika nga ni Capt Guinolbay, "there is a smarter way to do it sir!".

Sigurado ako kung sila ay nahatulan na may pagkakamali, haharapin nila iyan ng buo ang loob at may dignidad. Habang wala pa tayo doon, sa katotohanan lang muna tayo.

sinabi ba to ni guinolbay when he lost many of his men in that debacle in Lamitan?

As a matter of fact he did. He protested to Brigade and Division about his SR class being deployed to the lamitan area when Southcom has not delivered the firearms they promised.

His class was about to be disbanded as katatapos lang ng test mission, graduation na ng class niya in a few days. A third already turned over their firearms for shipping to their kanikanilang mga unit. Imagine ipinasundo ka pa ng C130 sa maynila with a promise na may baril pag dating nila ng zamboanga. Nakatawid na sila ng dagat at lahat hanggang nakarating sa brigade forces wala pa rin yung baril na pangako sa mga bata niya.

Ito ang incident where he actually made the statement.

Combine it with bad intel from brigade, you have a fiasco in the making.

So tell me, sinong senior officer ang pumigil sa kanila na wag mag deploy? Kahit man lang i question ang order kung dapat ba i deploy yung mga tropa na walang mga baril.

Sir Gino was just being a good soldier, diba yun ang gusto nating lahat?

Tingnan mo burden niya ngayon dahil sa kagaguhan ng ilang nasa taas.

Linawin ko lang, dahil ba mali o di kaya dahil kulang info mo, dapat mo na cya husgahan?

Convenient noh? :dontgetit:

Marami talagang macho at magagaling sa buong AFP bukod sa SR. Pero di gawain ng mga tunay na magigiting na tadyakan ang mga kapwa magigiting lalo na pag wala ang mga ito sa posisyon na matadyakan ka rin. Pana-panahon lng yan, si Gringo din naging bida sa mata ng bayan tapos naging wanted tapos naging senador tapos naging wanted nanaman pero di pa rin tapos ang istorya dun. Kung sa tingin natin masama ang mga nakasama sa list kasi di nagtagumpay and coup, wag natin masyadong personalin ang mga nasa listahan.

There are always 2 sides of the story and some stories can be twisted and filtered for whatever purposes it may serve. Kung nakipagconnive sa commie, bigyan ng karampatang parusa...pero wag lahatin at hintayin munang mapatunayan kung sino ang may sala. Kung kayo ay paniwalang-paniwala sa mga press releases, marami ring hindi.

Konting hinahon at pakundangan lang po. Of course, di natin maiiwasan na marami talagang ayaw papigil na net warriors at mga very brave persons around. Kung ayaw nyo papigil eh di sige, laitin nyo at kutyain ang mga nagsusuffer ngayon dahil sa kanilang prinsipyo. Keep it up to your heart's content.

I'm not a fan of GMA but I totally detest military officers who try to overthrow civilian governments, some of those in the above list maybe innocent and just like their CO, Gen. Lim might even demand commendation and medals :armyroleyes: for 'thwarting' a military takeover.

I agree that until proven guilty they are inocent, but please, if there will be a fair trial, court martial or civilian - those found to be guilty should be meted the full punishment stipulated in the law.

If the penalty is death - then so be it, just let it be NOT another 10 push-ups.

:agree:

but the death penalty has been abolished, right? or am i wrong, and that the death penalty can be meted out to military personnel because of the articles of war? kung hindi na maaring hatulan ng kamatayan ang mga mapapatunayan na nagkasala -- tignan nila kung may mga tattoo sa left underarm kasi yun daw ang isang ebidensya na resulta ng "ritwal" noong nagtatatag ang mga magdalo hehehe yung isang nakadetenang marine mayroon noon hehehe -- habang buhay na pagkakakulong ang susunod na karampatang parusa, tama ba o mali ako? dapat siguro habang buhay na pagkakakulong na walang parole ano ha? baka pag nakalaya ulit -- on good behavior habang nasa kulungan -- eh maghasik na naman ng kaguluhan eh di ba? :banana:

due to the participation of many of its officers in coup attempst, the FSRR, along with other special operations units are planned to be downsized or disbanded according to news accounts.

personally im amenable to this, I think the special units in the AFP are immature and gullible and easily swallows the baits of greedy politicians and kingmakers.

[URL=http://www.gmanews.tv/breakingnews.php?sec=2&id=13458] Army's special ops

Army's special ops chief open to study downsizing elite units

Aba good news sa aming mga ranger officers yan, its really simple for us. Once we are reassigned to other Infantry Div Coy or Bn we will just retrofit our new units with training ala SRTS. It will be the best thing that ever happened to Infantry Division units since man invented sliced bread.

Eh di mas maganda lalaki ang legacy ng regiment nyan. Approve sa akin yan! Humanda mga kamas kamas ang kalakaran sa akin na EPs. Mga makukulit at puro tikal, automatic volunteer as assaulters and skirmishers. It will be a nice experience for them as if they learned religion all over again.

:werock:

my two cents' worth: downsizing the elite units such as the rangers is not solving the tendency to stage coup d'etats, rebellions, etc. because for as long as government does not rehabilitate itself meron at merong magrereklamo sa pamamalakad ng ipinapatupad nila...para sa akin walang ipinagkalayo iyan sa gusto mong makatipid magretrench ka ng empleyado...eh di nadagdagan ang unemployed...nadagdagan ang disgusto ng mga tao...they turn to crime...the crime rate goes up...matatakot mga foreign investors...babagsak ang ekonomiya...magsasara maraming kumpanya...aaaaayyyyy naku! nakakaloka na!!!! :headbang:

Downsizing SOCOM units especially the SR and SF is not a good move at this time.. and in the future.

Our Special Operations forces are essential in maintaining a ready and sufficient pool of elite units that can handle operations against terrorists and guerilla rebel forces.

The future of wars require us to maintain and enhance our SOCOM.

As i see it, no matter how the govt or the AFP try to downplay it, this really has something to do with the coup try involving the SR troops.

The govt knows how important the role of SOCOM is so it will not weaken the capability of SOCOM, ......... in any way. Nonetheless, even so, if the actions involving the SOCOM units will continually shaken the govt, then the latter will have no other choice but to sort of undermine the capability of the SOCOM units to stabilize the current situation. Any president will do that despite the heavy loss. Even I will support such and just bring it back to how it was when the situation improves. Kaya guys, please think it over a hundred times before you make similar actions again.

The SOCOM guys especially the junior officers should not set aside or IGNORE the public's pulse or the position or view of the majority. Else, their actions, no matter how they want to implement it, will only end in futility and put them in regretable situations.

The soldiers must realize that the silent majority is not the left-leaning demonstrators who have nothing in their minds but topple any govt that the voting public puts in.

The silent majority is not the opposition party who's only motive is to ride on any issue and use anyone who can bring down the walls that secure the Presidency.

The silent majority is the people who are basing their decisions and actions on what will really make the country move forward.

Guys, wag na kayong magpagamit pa kasi! Kayo lang din napapahamak sa bangdang huli at yung nanggamit sa inyo ay nakapwesto pa rin. Kayo lang napahamak at di sila.

Play it smart! Look at how PGMA was treating you before Gen. Lim turned his back on PGMA?

Dami na ginawang special na ginawa si PGMA sa inyo before Lim turned his back. He even visited your camp to show you how pampered you are. But you ruined your opportunity just because you allowed yourselves to be manipulated by selfish politicians and left-leaning people.

See now?

But relax, guys. As i see it, there's no need to downsize the SOCOM. PGMA's 2-year deadline on defeating the NPA needs the current strength of SOCOM. In fact, it requires enhancing the capability and strength more.

Kung may natutuwa man na lumiit ang SOCOM ay walang iba kugdi ang mga rebelde.

Pero fellows, help the majority and the genuine patriots help you.

Manahimik na kasi kayo.

Wag na kayong makigulo pa.

Di naman namin binabalewala ang gawain ng gobyerno, mali man o tama ito.

BINABALANSE LANG NAMIN LAHAT PARA ANG AMING PAPANIGAN AY MAKABUBUTI PARA SA LAHAT.

To play it safe... ..PULSUHAN NYO MUNA SENTIMIENTO NG TAO BAGO KAYO GUMAWA NG HAKBANG. Huwag kayo makinig sa raliyista, leftist, rightist, at pulitiko. Puro sila may bahid ng pagkamakasarili. Pumanig kayo sa tama.

Downsizing or even abolition is not all bad news.

The divisions already have SR-trained recon units and could be expanded with personnel from downsized/disbanded FSRR.

Like it or not, the FSRR unit name is already tainted by its involvement in coups, no matter its achievements in counter-insurgency ops. Its abolition could erase this stigma from the people's minds without actually removing its proven value and effectiveness as insurgent neutralizer.

galing sa PASR group email hehehehe:

Youre right Jonjie but in my opinion, that set up is applicable only to their own Armed Forces and the enemy they are confronting. If the recruitment, remuneration, and support sytem in the PA is comparable to our counterparts in the US, maybe it is doable to have only one SR battalion. Di naman talaga napakataas ng standard ng ating skills bilang "elite soldiers" eh kaya lang it so happened na mas mataas ang ating level compared sa ibang units in terms sa capabilities at dahil na rin sa mga taong nag-dadala. Dahil dito, mas maganda na ring malaki ang strength natin. Ang alam ko, sa US ay pinapalawak nila ang kanilang special operations forces dahil sa kalabang kanilang hinaharap (Afghanistan and Iraq experience). Sa atin, kahit na 3 battalion na tayo, di pa rin convincing ang ating mga performance against the enemy na scattered all over the archipelago. Kung isang battalion na lang ang itira, we expect na ganon pa rin ang pay and allowances ang logistics system at lagi yan i-commit sa mga delicate missions. Pag ang tropa ay di na masyado marorotate kasi konti na lang, morale is low kasi wala naman tayong implemented stress management sa ating Army. Wala rin naman special remuneration for being a Scout Ranger na lagi nasa gyera (which I think is indeed hazardous) as compared to the EOD guys na meron 50% for "handling hazardous materials and equipment". Kung ang sandamukal na mga sundalo nong CY 2000 sa Jolo ay nakakaramdam ng combat stress kahit nai-rorotate natin sa combat operations ang tropa, paano na lang kaya pag sobrang konti na?

Nice points to ponder ang mga ito. Once again, lets concentrate on the problem first.


JONJIE LUNTOK <jluntok@hotmail. com> wrote:
Lets look at the bright side. Maybe downsizing the Scout Rangers to a battalion we will go back to the basics wherein we will operate again as 7-man teams. Mukhang bihira na natin gawin yon and it was very effective as what was shown by our forebears in their fight against the Huks and campaigns against Moro bandits in the South. Another thing, look at the US Army, the 75th Ranger Regiment has only 3 battalions and yet they are projected to operate anywhere in the world. Comparing the number of our personnel in the AFP with the US Armed Forces, napakaliit, kaya matatawag natin na truly elite ang Rangers nila dahil talagang kaunti lang sila. May gyera din ang US ngayon pero they haven't thought of adding another battalion to their Ranger Regiment. Anyway, points to ponder lang ito. Ayoko makipag-debate. RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: harold cabunoc <meninblackwarrior@ yahoo.com>
Reply-To: PhilippineArmyScout Rangers@yahoogro ups.com
To: PhilippineArmyScout Rangers@yahoogro ups.com
Subject: Re: [Scout Rangers] One-Battalion FSRR
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 17:52:18 -0700 (PDT)


Mart, baka sabihin nila sobrang mayabang ang Rangers kasi di naman nila nakita yong captured documents sa Mindoro at yong hawak ng 24IB na kung saan naka-specify ang kanilang doktrina pangontra musang. Ginawa nila ito dahil pinag-aaralan nila ang kanilang weaknesses at ang kanilang mga problema.

Para sa akin, ganito ang pagkumpara ko sa planong pagpapaliit ng FSRR:

Meron tayong isang 4X4 pick up truck na epektibo ang gamit sa pag-haul ng tropa sa rugged terrain ng ating AOR. Ang truck na ito ay biglang nag-loloko at nag-aalburoto ang makina.

Ang planong gagawin ng lider ay palitan na lang ng mas maliit na makina at paliitan na rin ang kanyang katawan para kakayanin ng makina sa paghatak.

Ang nararapat siguro na gagawin ay patingnan sa mekaniko kung aling parte sa makina o mga sistema sa loob ng sasakyan at pakinggan ang kanyang rekomendasyon para maisaayos ito at maibalik sa kanyang magandang gamit na kung saan sya ay napatunayan na epektibo.

Di ko minamaliit ang kakayahan ng mga Infantry Battalions as a whole pero base sa ating history na alam naman ng lahat ng mga kasundaluhan, ang Scout Ranger units ang tunay na maasahan kapag nasa kagipitan. Sila ay sumusuong sa mga panganib sa mga sitwasyon na ang iba ay nag-dadalawang isip nang tumaya ng buhay (Mohaji, Dos Palmas, Siraway, Hamsiraji incident,, MV Karagatan). Bakit kaya? Maliban sa better trained ang Scout Rangers, meron silang pinanindigan na pangalan na na-established na ng mga ninuno simula sa Huk campaign, MNLF/MILF/ASG, at laban sa mga komunista. Dahil meron pinanindigan, kahit walang dagdag na sweldo pero ika nga, the Rangers always "walked extra miles" compared to the other soldiers.

Hindi naman kaila sa atin na may maraming pagkukulang para maabot ng Infantry Battalions ang kakayahan ng Scout Rangers. Kaya naman na mai-propagate ang skills at lalo na ang renowned fighting spirit ng Scout Rangers sa kanila. Kailangan lang ng mga credible leaders/trainers at respectable commanders who will lead by good example at magpapatupad ng mga policies and regulations para sa ikakaganda ng ating Army.

Bakit mahirap o talagang di na-transform ang ating mga candidate soldiers at regular soldiers na maging better fighters? Ito ay hindi lang dahil sa kulang ng modernized na gamit. ITO AY DAHIL PINABAYAAN NATIN ANG KANILANG TRAINING. Ang inaatupag ng mga candidate soldiers ay pagtatabas ng damo at "other activities not directly related to military skills training". Papasok pa lang sila sa serbisyo, ang exposure nila kaagad ay "for compliance" soldier's training at great examples of graft and corruption na hindi kinokorek (issuematic ng gamit na overpriced at sapilitan, collaboration with insurance dealers, financial institutions like AFPSLAI and PAFCIPIC para ipagloan ang mga incoming privates and 5/6 usurers para ipautang ang mga bagong sundalo. Pagreport ng bagong private sa kanyang unit, BAON SA UTANG kaya low-morale at ito ay directly related sa fighting spirit na ating pinag-uusapan. Kulang na sa training, wala pang fighting spirit!

Sa FSRR, ito ang isa sa mga repormang aming kinorek nang mapuna ko ito lalo na in 2002 nang ako ay Liaison Officer at Deputy G1 na kung saan marami sa aming mga bagong privates ay wala nang pera kahit pamasahe pang uwi dahil naubos sa automatic deduction, at karamihan ay libo-libo ang utang sa mga trainors (Officers and NCOs) na nag-nenegosyo sa kanila ng over-priced items. Nang nasa posisyon kami na ito ay baguhin, ginawa namin ito kaya ang mga bagong privates ay nagkaroon ng AFPSLAI passbook na diretsong ipapasok ang sweldo ng private at meron kaming publication ng status ng kanilang pera. Tinutururan namin sila ng kahalagahan ng pagtitipid para sa kanilang pamilya. Di man perfect ang sistema na aming nagawa, at least we made a bold attempt to SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

How I wish that we have an established Feedback System in the Philippine Army so that every soldier can contribute his own ideas for the solution of our complex problems. It can't be solved by a select few individuals so consultations with many concerned personnel must be made.

BOTTOMLINE NG AKING MAHABANG POST: SOLVE THE PROBLEM, DO NOT FIGHT IT! CONCENTRATE ON THE PROBLEM FIRST, NOT IMMEDIATELY ON THE SOLUTIONS!

Mabuhay ang Philippine Army!


MART OIROG <oirog73@yahoo. com> wrote:
Anong kalokohan ito?
Don't you know that in a recent captured documents the NPA's only fear the Scout Rangers during the encounters?
Ngayon gawin nilang isang battalion ang Rangers! Di na sila nakontento sa ginawa ni Gen Abu. Ano ang epekto? kumunte ang mga units ng rangers, konte lang ang deployment kaya sa scoreboard ng Armed Forces since down-grading the Rangers of course socom, talo ang AFP.
Kung gusto nilang wala ng mag COUP patayin nila si Honasan. Siya ang dahilan ng lahat ng mga nangyaring COUP at paghihirap ng maraming Rangers ngayon.

It's a not a good excuse to disband the Scout Rangers. According to some they're feared by NPA. Probably a communist agent of influence in the government suggested that to subtly weaken our military. Paralyze those who are effective in combatting terrorism and communism. Just don't punish coup plotters with pushups, matatakot o masisindak ang mga yan.

Ganun na ba tayo ka shortsighted. Sa mga sessions namin sa nasirang Capt Rene Jarque he would always remind us that the Filipino people has become cynical, politically-apolitical, shorsighted that they would rather live in a paradoxical world.

Para naman sa nagreremind sa amin na pulsuhan namin ang masa at bayan. Tangna bumoto naman kasi kayo ng tama, ang gagaling nyo magsalita eh napakadisunited ninyo. Maybe I should remind you all, kayo maykagagawan nito, kami sumusunod lang sa chain of command.

Sana wag naman mangyari pero paano kung ang Filipino people ay magkaroon ng "Franco Dilemma"? Where the people do not know anymore what they want? We do not want fascist elements in the gov to take advantage of the people now right? So sort your sanamagan left hand from your right hand.

Uy Sgt Major na ako, mas mataas na rank ko sa first sgt ko, hehehehe

Quite surprising, kala ko may knee-jerk reaction opposing such a move.

Downsizing to 1 battalion each seems extreme, and outright disbandment ng ilang units (which I don't get from that report), how about:

- 1 super-elite SF battalion, a la SAS o Delta, best op da best ng Socom.
- 3 Sct Ranger battalions, para regiment pa rin.
- Dispersing other SF/SR bn, or building up with DRCs kung nabuo na, with the aim of having 1 SF/SR battalion equivalent per division, na magiging 10 IDs na pala (parang israelis na may spec-ops coy per brigade, or our own PMC now has a spec-ops pn per mblt).
(ano nga pala gagawin sa LRB, yung iba siguro dun sa super-SF, balik SR or disperse sa IDs)

I'm all for qualitatively strengthening Socom, as above the equivalent of 4 battalions oks na siguro. And also, improving the "regular" forces with infusion ng elite na tropa -- eventually having the equivalent of an SF/SR bn per ID, ayos nga din yon, lalo na kung maipamahagi nyo yung kagalingan nyo sa IDs through more immediate contact.
.

surehitter is right, fellows! :armywink:

WE SHOULD LOOK AT IT IN A BROADER PERSPECTIVE before we make our judgement

Alam nyo mga kapatid na sundalo, SABI KO NA NGA SA INYO WAG KAYO PADADALA SA PAMBUBUYO LEFTIST, RIGHTIST AND SA MGA PULITIKO.

Walang pakialam ang mga yan sa mangayayari sa inyo. Ginagago lang kayo ng mga yan. Kala nyo sinosoportahan kayo pero inuuto lang kayo para magamit nila kayo. Then pag tapos na ibabasura na lang kayo. Or pag nagkaletche-leche na ay tatalikuran din kayo.

See? Sana matuto na kayo, mga kapatid. Plan it well, mga kapatid. Di nyo kaya kung kayo-kayo lang yan. Marami pang kokontra sa inyo na mas papanigan ng MAS NAKARARAMI.

:agree:
Scout Rangers - We should stick to 3 battalions. The insurgents and the separatists forces including the ASG fear the SRs the most. That's how effective these Scout Rangers are. They are effective because the whole team is skilled and equipped to perform what they do best.

Maski ilipat sila sa Inf Divs at gawin parang DRC ay di mapapantayan ng Inf Divs ang effectiveness ng SR Coys or Battalions.

Dont forget that! Kaya malaking blunder ang i-downsize ang SR kasi di mapapatanyan ang synergy ng skills ng buong pwersa. Dapat i-maintain ang 1 SRB each para sa Luzon, Visayas at Mindanao.


Special Forces - SF actually ay naka-tandem for external defense natin dapat. Gaya ng SR specialized din skills nila. Di rin sila magiging kasing effective kung isasama as Inf Divs as DRC elements or ihahalo lang in any other way.

The areas not served by the SRBs due to lack of troops ay pwede mabigyan pansin ng SFs. Calabarzon and the Bicol areas and even parts of Mindanoa are suitable areas.


LRC - Di ka kailangan ang SAS style kasi nandiyan na ang LRC. Pero we should keep the LRC as a single battalion lang because making it too big will compromise some of their advantages in some areas like quality of training and material support.


With the DRCs, i agree that we have to enhance their capabilities. Di naman ala SR or LRC kasi that is not their function. Recon sila at di elite strike unit.

tama sya!

Kaya nga wag na kayong magpagamit na eh.

Buti pa si Mart napansin na lalo lang silang napapahamak sa ginagawa ng ibang nasa pwesto na. THAT'S A GOOD START!

Now think about it for a moment, mas malaki problema diba pag ginawa yun? The SR officers will make sure that ID units will get their fair share of a real soldier's work, they will soon get SR brand of patriotism (no cheating, no lying, no stealing or tolerate those who do ) eh paano ngayon yan kung ganun ang AFP leadership(hypothetically), the ID units will soon not tolerate dysfunctional leaders, kung ganun scenario aba sa 2ID ako magpapa assign para malapit sa maynila. We officers of SR will make sure what we learned from the regiment will be spread around. We have a bigger audience for true reform, that is what we all want kaya excited kami lahat.

Legend has it when the regiment was disbanded after the 89 incident, the officers made a final toast cheering "HINDI IISA ANG ARAW"!

May punto ka to that extent,.... but if you will look into the other aspects of this setup. You will see that the IDs can never replace the effectiveness of the SR units due to their organizational setup/operational procedures and skills.

Sa SR Coy iba ang lakas kasi lahat nag train sa SRTS. Kumpara sa ID na hinalo-halo lang ang SR-trained sa karamihan na dumaan lang ng basic soldiery course. So malabo talaga mapantayan effectiveness SR Coys.

Di rin naman pwede na ituro lang basta-basta at di na padaanin sa regular na SRTS program ang bawat regulars ng ID. Mas magastos din kasi kung lahat sila dalin sa SRTS.

See the difference?

Kung pwede nga lahat ng Army padaanin sa STRS pero di pwede kasi magastos. Kaya nga 3 battalions lang ang SR for this matter.

Di pwede mawala SR strike forces kasi may operations na sila lang pwede gumawa kasi yun ang specialty nila.

They were trained, equipped and organized for specific missions.

Ito rin dahilan bat kailangan ang LRC ay isang battalion lng. Kasi pag masyado malaki ay makokompromiso quality at material support sa kanila.

Kung may pera na tayo tsaka na tayo magpalago ng grupo.