Whats in ur mind? :snipemo:

BATTLE-TANKS:
100 LEOPARD II

80 MARKAVA

75 M1A ABRAMS

LIGHT TANKS:
300 Various models/variants of KALAKIAN (mobile radars/SAMS/APC/LAV/LAAV)

248 VARIOUS MODELS OF SIMBA

140 MK3 APC

136 LAVs (V150/300)

120 AIFV

112 M113

100 HARI-DIGMA

86 OTHER VARIOUS LIGHT TANKS

LIGHT ARMOR VEHICLES:
500 HAMMER (DIFFERENT VARIANTS)

300 OTHER VARIOUS LIGHT ARMOR VEHICLES

48 GKN AQUATRACK

:patrioticpinoy:

Oh come on, Spearhead,

Sorry to say this, but if the RP spends its money on Abrams, it'll be SECOND or THIRD-RATE equipment 20-30 years from now. The US/West is bound to have something much better by that time.

Please be realistic. This is yet another fantasy/dream wish list.

Besides, the Israeli Merkava is not for export. (well, at least not yet)

Well, at least no one has come up with a list that has mecha from science fiction or anime shows.

I hate to be the devil's advocate but I don't think it's realistic given the economic situation, certainly, we can not spend our national budget on modernizing the AFP. Looking back at the AFP 20 years ago, not much has changed, in some cases the AFP even deteriorated.

M16A1 is still the standard battle rifle
Kennedy type jeeps and mini-cruisers are still in service
V-150 Commando APCs (where are they now?)

oh thAts gRanteD that oUr econOmy wenT SteAdy uP, renewED mIlitAry alliAnce with iSrael, and OuR nAtiOn hAve ofFiciALly became A fiRst wOrld cOuNtry and spending roUghlY like $ 10 billioN/yeAr! hmmmmMMM :drunk:

only merkava 4 is not for sale i think....if i'm not wrong they offer turkey merkava 3

after CNN, BBC and Fox broadcasted video clips of burning and destroyed merkava 4s, no country in his right mind will be running to buy.

the M1 Abrams now reign supreme over other tanks until other pretenders like the Leopard, Leclerc,. Ariete can withstand ATGMs in actual combat.

our army 25 years from now? hmmm...

after some re-roganization of all levels of the army (proposed by AFP), i think it will be a light but highly capable army with STILL 2nd-hand/hand-me-down equipment from the US plus some light vehicles/equipment from other countries and being assembled here (hopefully...)

i think this might be our army 25 years from now:

3x light infantry divisions
13x light mobile combat brigades (infantry)
1x light armored brigade
1x airborne regiment / brigade
1x divisional artillery (brigade)
3x engineering brigade
other support groups (logistics, medical,etc...)

equipment MIGHT BE the following (numbers not included):

- 2nd-hand M113s APCs and AIFVs (US)
- wheeled tanks/APCs (like V150/V300 or equivalent and GKN APCs) armed with 90mm gun and 20mm gun, respectively (US/UK)
- 2nd-hand humvees and M151 mutts (US)
- 2nd-hand 2.5 tons and 5 tonner trucks (US)
- upgraded 105mm and 155mm towed artillery (french upgrade)
- reconditioned/2nd-hand 90mm/105mm recoiless rifles (installed on humvees only)
- 40mm granade launchers (RP)
- 81mm/106mm/120mm mortars (US/UK)
- shoulder-fired anti-tank / bunker-busting rockets (US/UK) -take note "unguided"
- M16A1/A2 rifles (US)
- truck-mounted 122mm rocket launchers (might be russian or european made)
- comm gear (various countries but usually US)
... and the list goes on...

now what do you think?

25 years is too far

by the time we have the money those items you listed will be obsolete or there'll be better ones by then.

i suggest we shorten the time to 10 or 15 years instead.

I doubt the wars of the future on the ground would be like those huge set piece tank, artillery and infantry battles NATO and Warsaw pact envisioned during the Cold war on the plains of Southern Germany.

Just look at the fighting in Afghanistan, Iraq and Lebanon using smaller units of light and heavy infantry where the threats would be guerillas or irregular-types like Talaiban or even the Hezballers. Armor will be delegated merely to infantry support.

In this battlefield, it would not only be about firepower and protection but about more efficient communications, better intelligence, mobility and most importantly who gets to win the hearts and minds of the people.

I think the PA 25 years from now would need better body armor, decent rifles (probably patterned after M16s and even M14s), recon aids like UAVs, decent comm systems and a better system of logitics and mobility.

Amor assets that we would procure would be more IFVs to be supplemented by light tanks like the Stingray.

Most of the money, however, shouldgo into training and recruiting HumInt, Special Operations Forces (especially PA SF) , Civic-Military Operations and above all, intensive Human Rights and Cultural sensitivity training for the troops.

we should buy some iranian stuff too like those of shoulder-fired missile launchers... i think our foot soliers need some similar weapons... i know that chinese and the americans have those stuff... :snipemo:

yes, i believe that 15 - 25 yrs from now we will still be using these kind of material/equipments (that's why i said 2ND HANDS), it will always be like that, up to now we are still using these kind of equipment, just doing some upgrades to better their performance...

... but i wish that we could have stae-of-the-art weapons and equipment, like UAVs, better comms, better support equipment like NVGs, light body armor, and support vehicles and mobile artillery, not to mention some shoulder-fired light rockets for AT and bunker-busting, or something like that...

... still hoping again for the next 15-25 years...

didn't u see those burning abrams too during the first phase of american assault in baghdad that were broadcasted first by the CNN? :drunk:

TORO



:snipemo: :patrioticpinoy:

The design is more like an Overlord tank from Command & Conquer General game!

If GMA is still the sitting president 25 years from now and at the rate that she and her cohorts are plundering the nation, I could only imagine:


M1 Garand rifles and M1/M2 Carbines as assault rifles
Thompson Sub-machine gun
Browning Automatic Rifle to replace the M-249
Sherman Tanks
M-48 medium tanks
Willy's Jeep and


Hehehe, we practically reverted to WW2 era.

25 yrs? hopefully modernize infantry equipment a must!!!

:snipemo: I think the first thing we should consider for our armys future is in Body armor. Most modern army issued its individual foot soldier with one it helps increase survivability and reduce death and injury . I saw the Sri lankan army having issued to its troops even Hizbollah fighters have one in its fighters ,couldnt we produce local ones for our toops? We dont need Need MBTs we need more fire support vehicles for our troop like upgrading our simbas with 90mm guns or the old 76mm guns from our scorpion tanks or 106mmRecoilees rifles mounted on armoured vehicles ( I saw in the internet simba with 90mm guns)Why not also consider GRAD multiple rockets system for Fire and artillery attacks. The Hizbollas modified there so that it can be fitted to small vehicles and attack Israel. For our rifles why not try and negotiate with singafore for there CIS SAR80/88 or Croatian APS 90,Korean K1 or K2 .just a suggestion.

The economy of today is on the rebound. If government continues to sustain it and move in the direction of further economic expansion, then 25 years will see a very different & capable Philippines. :btt: so here is my wish list

10 light infantry Divisions - humvees, APCs
1 Epeditionary Light Infantry Division (for an active Philippines in the Global community- peace keeping of course)
2 Mountain Divisions
4 Scout Ranger (RECON) Regiments
1 Armoured Scout Ranger (Recon) Brigade - MBTs, AIFVs, APCs
1 airborne regiment
-------------------------
3 Expeditionary armored battalions - latest MBTs, AIFV, APCs
4 antitank regiments - equipped with ATGMs man-portable and mounted on Humvees
2 antiaircraft regiments - armed with stingers
3 antiaircraft regiments - armed wth mobile SAMs and AA guns
5 light artillery battalions - howitzers
4 Field Artillery brigades - with latest heavy mobile SP guns
1 Heavy Artillery brigade - mobile siege guns!
3 Air Cav Brigades - with close support Choppers as mobile artillery
plus logistics and command units
:armyLol:

all told plus PN, marines, airforce...an AFP 350,000 strong

an expeditionary force?? :armyLol:

anyway, that's cool...

but such a force should be left for the marines. :thumb:

if the economy is on the rebound for the next 25 years, i thnk we don't need this kind of a large army (although i know this is your dream, hehehehe...) because by this timeline the NPAs and MILFs are non-existent, only muslim terrorist/JIs will be our main problem, so i think our army will be reduced with some will be assigned as active reserves, while our special forces/operations will grow in size due to the threat of terrorist...

... just my opinion, but still, we don't know...

this is a nice dream.....are you sure this is the AFP you are dreaming??? this is more on hallucination.

no hallucination. This is how i see a possible AFP in 25 years. Next time, please take topic into context before yoo post.

25 yrs from now the AFP would still be filled with officers tainted with corruption. Soldiers ill-equipped, disgruntled and a salary of a few pesos. And a looming commie and islamic insurgent waiting to take a hold of the island. Is this on topic now?????

Now this is hallucination...

oops

If you claim to be madame auring and claim to see the future . . . even then i will not believe you. "there is notthing permanent except change". If you choose to be pessimistic about the filipino, that is your problem. I, for one, belive and hope that we will make a better future for our children no matter what the situation now.

This country has a tremendous amount of potential. That is no hallucination. Our GNP last year was at the top 25 based on PPP. It is bigger than that of Pakistan or Israel who have larger and more modern militaries. Indeed we have a big economic, social, and population problem. But nothing that we won't be able to solve in 25 years. If you study my "wish list", it is not even a very large military compared to what we actually had before we scaled it down dueing the 80s or 90s. We spend less than 1% of our GNP on the military when the accepted norm is 1%. Furthermore, our rate of economic expansion of a liittle less than 6% has made savings for us worth billions. The world bank forecasts our economy to grow more than 6% next year. If we are able to sustain this , even for next year, the rewards would domino effect the different sectors and effectively improve our per capita income.

I am sorry but I think your forecast in 25 years for the Phil military will not be applicable to anybody but you.

I think we don't need a very big armed forces, just need to upgrade their capability, my comments are as follows:

1. 10 Light Infantry Divisions with APCs and Humvees - reasonable
2. Expeditionary Light Infantry Division - waste of resources, we can draw peace keeping forces from existing units, no need to have a unit dedicated for this task.
3. Mountain Division - redundant
4. 1 Ranger Regiment, 1 SF Regiment under SOCOM is enough
5. Armored Scout Ranger Brigade(?) - FSRR is a rapid deployment force specializing in small unit tactics, direct action, recon and unconventional warfare, it's not in their character to drive tanks and APCs, the Light Armor Brigade is the unit for armor.
6. Airborne Regiment - existing SFRA

As for that light expeditionary division, it can be very useful in a COIN role here at home as well as in an Peacekeeping role too. Their role would focus on civic military ops including disaster relief or winning Hearts & Minds through works of mercy. Their playing policeman would also be of help to augment cops in patrolling remote areas near rebel territory or in civil disturbance management in larger urban areas.

We can build such a unit from those assigned to NCR Command since they're focused on Civil Disturbance management and Army reserve units (like the 9th RR) which are used primarily for Civic Military ops like Medical Missions.

Of course, the best place to base them would be Fort Bonifacio.

we may maintain a small armed forces, however, we can have a potent reserve force, thus, putting emphasis on the training of the reservists.

i certainly agree! :agree: with that timeline, our army will be reduced to half its present strength, therefore transferring other units to ACTIVE RESERVES, which will be larger in numbers (more than twice) compared to the army. What i see here also is the increase in manpower at our SPECFOROPS to counter the increasing number of terrorist/islamic militants + remnants of the NPAs.

The defensive posture of the phil military may shift significantly in 25 years. Threat from the NPA and muslim insurgency may shift to primarily urban terrorism (instead of jungle warfare). A growing regional/world superpower might also influence the military configuration, from that of internal security to external defense.

Military counter-intelligence would have to be modernized and expanded, to check terrorism and espionage.

Already, the US has warned of a new arms race as China rearms itself (and re-aserts its influence in the region and the world), using its new found wealth. India, together with Pakistan, has tested their own nukes to deter an attack from each other. The Pakistanis have allied themselves with China, while the US has courted India by lifting nuclear materials embargo and actually accelerating nuke fuel deals. India, I think, would be the US partner to balance the Chinese in Asia. To China's south, we are likely to be a natural ally of the US and with public opinion against US bases, a strong Phil military would also serve US interests.

a strong philippine armed forces will be if we are being supplied by the US with the weapons/equipment/training we need not only in fighting the insurgents and muslim extremist / terrorist but also, albeit partially, to defend our territory from external threats (like what you said about with china). certainly the US, if a war with china would materialize (example if china invades of taiwan), will use our bases (former US bases) because of its strategic location within the area of conflict. that, i may say, would serve US interest within our region (southeast asia).

and yes, we really need to upgrade our intelligence service and create a counter intelligence and security group to deal with enemies of the state not only inside the philippines but also abroad (though this will be very costly)...

well the truth hurts barber6.....honor, courage and integrity? phuleaaase!!

curb the corruption and build the AFP.....but i won't hold my breath if this do materialize.

What truth? How can this be the truth when nobody has seen the AFP 25 years from now - hallucination. Don't you hate people with "Loser" type of attitude...

If every filipino were to develop the kind of attitude that kyle_katarno has, then kyle_katarno's "truth" could be a reality. :headbang:

:agree:

The AFP 25 years from now:

-armed with IFVs (maybe teh Bionix 2 or CV90 or Wiesel)/AFVs/APCs
-everyone has full equipment
-at least 100 choppers
-RPG-29, mobile SAMs (manpads)
-reduced size to 45 000 in active duty

25 yrs from now the AFP would still be filled with officers tainted with corruption. Soldiers ill-equipped, disgruntled and a salary of a few pesos. And a looming commie and islamic insurgent waiting to take a hold of the island.