Let's cozy up to the Malaysians and offer to buy at friendly prices the 7 of 14 F5Es that they are planning to sell.




RMAF plans to sell seven of its F-5E fighter jets

KANGAR, Mar 3:


Half of the RMAF's existing fleet of 14 F-5E Eagles fighter jets will be disposed of, Deputy Defence Minister Datuk Zainal Abidin Zin said today.
The decision to sell the seven fighter jets was made about two months ago, and was based on advice from aero technology experts, he added.

"There was a need to replace these jets which are now more than 20 years old. We were provided with an option to upgrade or replace them. We chose the latter," he said.

He was speaking after attending the launching of the Northern Malaysia University College of Engineering's army reserve unit by the Regent of Perlis, Tuanku Syed Faizuddin Putra.

The US F-5E fighter jets are currently based at the Butterworth air base.

"There is nothing wrong with these aircraft. We are replacing them due to our military upgrading programme."

Zainal Abidin also said the jets would be replaced by the Russian Sukhoi Su-30 MKM Flanker fighter jets.

He added there was a RM3.42 billion (US$900 million) agreement with the Russian Government to supply Malaysia with 18 of these Sukhoi fighter jets.

The SU-30 MKM is due to be delivered next year and in 2007.

The RMAF has also expressed interest in purchasing FA18F Super Hornets in the near future. As for the remaining seven F-5E fighter jets, Zainal Abidin said they were being upgraded [B]

sorry, here's the link to the above article:

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Fri...e/pp_index_html

These are very well-maintained aircraft. If this article is true, It would be a major disappointment if the government would not raise an offer to the Malaysians.

There are also two RF-5E recon variants that we should look into if theyre for sale too.

RMAF RF-5E

:agree:

These are worthy aircrafts.

They are a lot cheaper than the newer ones.

Perfect for our interim acquisitions. :armycheers:

no need to buy these planes its as old as our inventory. just upgrade our existing f5's fits it with avionics like the taiwanese did. (tiger iv). After the upgrade our f5;s will fare better than the Malaysian F-5E's. If we start the uograding this year by 2007 we will be flying it on 2007 a little delayed but its a better aircraft.

The advantage our neighbors will be left in dark as to the capabilities of the upgraded F5's.

sorry to change the subject

18 SU30 ac / US$900 million

as far as i know 30 to 35 millions each and they will remove all israeli and maybe indian stuff from the ac, and put EU stuff. Thats why i think it is expensive. I know it comes with other stuff.

risky, can be sanctioned, say no.

Get the F5 and upgrade them

the cheapest option for PH


or get MIG29 or Su 30 :specool:

hi guys,

It is now sure that Thailand Air Force will be decommissioning very soon their F-5 Fighters. RP and Thailand are very close friend will it be good for our Air Force if we ask thses planes to tranfer it to us? Are the Thai F-5's upgraded just like the swiss fighters? Their OV-10's were in excellent conditions when they were transfered maybe their F-5's are also in good shape and will be a morale booster for our pilots who are wondering when they can fly.

A very welcome possibility indeed.

you mean birds of this kind?? well then, go for it!

Are you sure that the Thailand is retiring their F-5s???

If I am not wrong , the Thai signed a upgrade contract with Israeli Elbit in 2000 for USD66mil.

The upgrade includes Elbit mission computer, new electronic countermeasures, radar warning receiver and improved IFF. It builds on an earlier cockpit and navigation system modification programme, but no new radar thus not BVR capable.

I heard from some where else it also included LITENING II pod and having the wings strengthened to use GBU-10s.

Could it be A/B versions that are being retired? And the upgrade is for E/F models?

its says the thais will retire their F-5s once they get Gripens or F-16s

http://s3.invisionfree.com/Defense_Philipp...?showtopic=1517

Perhaps,but I think they are too old.

Almost 40 years , quite limited.

For me, I would rather go for retired E/F version, and get them upgrade in the near future.

Malaysia is selling some of their old F-5E/Fs, that at least is more modern.

I am in favor of acquiring that Thai F5 or Singaporean F5. but Malaysian F5 NEVER! even if malaysia is willing to give it to us for free. "We must have some pride!"

Pride is the downfall of many a man, much more a nation.

dude if you have some pride then buy with cash, not in credit or ask any country for free.

We'll work something out, look at the story of Poland-German Miig-29. Poland wanted to keep their "pride" and did not just want to look like a sick man on a welfare line, Germany just wanted to get rid of their Mig-29s. So they met in the middle and agreed that Poland pays 1Euro each for 22 Mig-29 aircraft, 22Euros in all...cost of overhauls and upgrades are different.

If we have to get something newly bought, second of third hand from our ASEAN brothers, id choose Indonesian CN-235 and Singaporean A-4s and F-5S. We got nothing to trade for the CN235 like South Koreans did with the KT-1, but friendship price? And for our Singaporean brethren, we dont offer them bases so we have to pay :headbang:. Hell the A-4s might even go to Indonesia, even Thais tried to give some of their OV-10s to indonesia, for a friendly measure nonetheless. But the PN is serious about buying Singaporean Endurance class LST/LSD?, so the Singaporeans could "sweeten" the deal a little bit...as a friendly measure. :armywink:

there might be problem when it comes to 'sweetened' the deal...whatever money we spend means every dollar is accountable. whatever deal that is 'sweetened' must benefit both parties not one. The Indonesians get our SF260 and Jupiter Diving tender boat with a reason, the Thais get their F16A/B from us with a reason if you know what i mean. Although some Thais (not all) are ungratefull. You gave them F16A/B, they wants the brand new ones. One good example you can read below:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Singapore's use of air base for war games denounced

Air force denies deal linked to gift fighters

SURASAK TUMCHAROEN & WASSANA NANUAM


About 100 members of the network of democracy-loving people gather in front of the Singapore embassy to protest against the government's decision to allow Singapore to use the Wing 23 air base in Udon Thani. - TAWATCHAI KEMGUMNERD

Allowing Singapore use of an air force base in Thailand for the next 15 years for military exercises had set a worrying precedent, a prominent Democrat MP said.

Pirapan Saliratawipak said he feared other countries would try to follow suit.

In a question to Defence Minister Sumpun Boonyanun Mr Pirapan said allowing the Singaporean air force use of Wing 23 air base in Udon Thani in exchange for seven second-hand F-16 Falcon fighters was ``unbecoming''.

``What if the US asks to use another air force base in this country, given Singapore's case and citing article 74 of the constitution on the use of Thai airspace for military exercises?'' he said.

``Wouldn't squadrons of foreign combat aircraft fire at one another over Thai airspace during their war games?''

In reply, Gen Sumpun said the Singaporeans would have to abide by Thai laws and would get no special privileges. Thai authorities would exercise tight control over use of the air base and Thai airspace.

The defence minister admitted the Singaporeans may conduct unilateral, bilateral or multi-lateral military exercises from Wing 23 air base.

The Thai air force held annual exercises with the US, Australia and neighbouring states, including Singapore, with which Thailand shared repair and maintenance programmes for common weapon systems, he said.

The Democrat argued the seven F-16A and F-16B fighters Singapore had offered in exchange for the use of Wing 23 air base were old and due to be decommissioned. The government should have bargained for more modern aircraft, especially the F-16C or F-16D fighters currently in use by the Singapore air force.

One of the old Singaporean F-16s had been damaged in an exercise over the South China Sea, Mr Pirapan said.

``Who will fly a fighter with one-third of the wing area seriously damaged?'' he said ``If you, Mr Defence Minister, were a combat pilot, would you have the nerve to fly it?''

Gen Sumpun, who claims to have been a pilot himself, said the damaged parts would be repaired and the aircraft's safety guaranteed before it ever takes off in Thailand.

Air force chief ACM Kongsak Wantana maintained Singapore had offered the seven fighters to Thailand because the two countries had good military relations.

The offer had nothing to do with Singapore's request for the use of Wing 23 air base in Udon Thani for air force training.

The seven F-16s had only 4,000 flying hours on the clock, were good for another 4,000 hours and could be in use for the next 15 years, said ACM Kongsak. The same model plane was already in service with the Thai air force.

Singapore had also offered 3,200 accessories and parts with the planes.

ACM Kongsak said the Singapore air force has been allowed to use air bases in Udon Thani and Khon Kaen provinces since April 30, 1981 under a cabinet resolution.

In Udon Thani, Charoon Thavornchak, an administrator of Rajabhat University Udon Thani, said the local people should be informed and public hearings held before Singapore was allowed use of the air base, which was now being used by both air force and commercial aircraft.

"there might be problem when it comes to 'sweetened' the deal...whatever money we spend means every dollar is accountable. whatever deal that is 'sweetened' must benefit both parties not one. The Indonesians get our SF260 and Jupiter Diving tender boat with a reason, the Thais get their F16A/B from us with a reason if you know what i mean."

I hear ya, business is business.:thumb:

"In reply, Gen Sumpun said the Singaporeans would have to abide by Thai laws and would get no special privileges."

---Is this to say that Singaporean servicemembers in Thailand do not have extraterritorial status in Thailand? i.e.-if a Singaporean servicemember commits a crime inside Thailand, does the Singaporean commanding officer HAVE to turn that person in to Thai authorities? This is a sticking point between RP and US agreements on bases and during the VFA arguments. "Nationalists" say no one is above the law, US says they punish their own. They met in the middle and as i understand it, if a US servicemember commits a crime while on active duty, commanding officer does not have to turn him/her in, and off duty, "obliged" to turn person to local authorities.

:agree:

The F5E's are even our own choice for our interim squadron of fighter jets.

Sec. Cruz and PGMA should do their best to get these F5s. :thumb: :thumb:

The only concern is that are they going to give us, ..... amidst the conflict with them on the Sabah issue, .... a really flyable and bug-free fighter jet?

Ask ko lang. What happened to the CF-5s we got back then?

Didn't push thru and we didn't have those.

Their upgraded F5's were used as lead trainers for their F18 pilots. Maganda sana for our PAF. I think they are also deactivating some of their F18's. If we could get their F5's and F18's nice to have it package.

Hmmm. So that US listing that we received CF5s was in error and our government blundered again with the mining deal that the Canadians got for that. Been wondering why our F5 count is so low if we did receive those CF5s.

I think there was one thread explaining why the CF5 deal did not push thru. If I could remember it happened during the Clinton Administration. Something about our human rights abuse records. Countries such as Canada is critical about these types of issues. Remember their helicopters ending up in Colombia?

I'm not sure about this but my understanding is only the american soldiers have such privilages (no wonder they behave badly), but i'm sure other troops from other countries must abide by local law.

oops, forgot to add, we've been there training in Thailand for more than 2 decades and there's never been any problem.

Yes the RTAF will be decomissioning the F-5 Freedom Fighter. The RTAF high command have plans in buying more Su-30 mmk or either newer versions of the F-16 air superiority fighter.

Personally, I would have liked it if we kept some of the F-5s; they did great service to Thailand in protecting our air space all these years.

But I am happy if RTAF would sell these babies to the PAF, it would no doubt help the PAF. :specool:

HERES some pics on our F-5s





replacing those...with these...babies...

:rifle:

You do know how to make other people drool! :wow:

:agree: :urock:

I am just a bit confused though.

Drool? Bcoz of the babies or the one in uniform? :armywink:

maybe both! hehe :drunk:

anyway, i thought philippines still have f-5's numbering to 15 planes. it was supposedly donated by korea as mentioned in timawa.net. what happened to them? are they still alive and flying?

Try the site of Manokski, hueybravo.

http://www.hueybravo.net/PhilippineAirForce_main.htm

I say no to these F-5's. Unless we want to spend more than what we are about to bargain for. Get something newer. Face it, the F-5's and whatever capabilities they have to offer are already obsolete. :headbang: Quit thinking that that is all we have to go for. :nono:

I totally disagree. Acquiring these F5s would mean much to our PAF. Why? They could help our boys acquire experience. And since these are upgradable they wouldn't really be that obsolete. And when we do get more modern MRFs these could still be used as secondary fighters or delegated to lesser roles or specific roles to free the more modern MRFs to more important missions. (Besides, let the boys train with the more cheaper F5s first outfitted with avionics similar to the more modern MRF we intend to buy to save on costs and possible accidents.)

An example would be just like the German F4s. Those planes can no longer do combat like before so you change tactics. They fitted them with BVRs and designed tactics in the use of it. Even the ChiCom Army Air still has for its backbone the obsolete MiG 21 copies. Russia before its fall relies on the MiG 23 and MiG 21 still as the MiG 29 wasn't that much in numbers yet. The Americans are relying for its backbone the F16 which is a really old design that is only updated (well, its indeed more modern than the F5s but the premise is still the same).

The F5s are reasonable but though I wish our other fighters could be returned back online they would just be cost inefficient to us.

Oh saver and Flipzi, you boys are so silly. :army:

Not even if Thailand sells the F-5s at a very low frienship price. I also aggree with City Hunter, it would provide good training for PAF pilots and it would increase PAF ability to assess internal and external threats. No?

If we will get those F-5s, i wished to see them flying with our new MRFs



and soon!
:tomcat:

Hi Siri,

Just wondering if those F-5s that are about to be retired by RTAF have they been subjected any upgrade? or was it the basic aircraft since then? what is the status right now of the F-5's.

From what I have read, it was upgraded multiple times in the past. The F-5s are being decommissioned this year; some are still online, but most are being cleared off.

With these extra F5s, we could hopefully start development of our own F5 Frankenstein to suit our needs (well, we need to pray that several congressmen and senators devote all their CDF to the R&D of this thing). First, we re-configure the air intakes for less IR signature up front and better efficiency. Zero timing the frame. Slap on a new and more powerful engine that is locally license built (the Russian ones come into mind - why? they are designed for war production though maybe of shorter life is still faster and easier to make). Slap on next radar absorbing paint then improve the avionics. The wing area could do some change along with other control surfaces. The 20mm gun would be better replaced with those of the Russian 30mm in my opinion. Bigger rounds tend to destroy the target with less ammo used (Russian ammo is also designed to defeat tanks in the first place). The canopy can do with a change too with a bubble top one.

The potential of the F5 is still not yet fully tapped. We could even research on the F20 thing to lessen the mistakes we might make. Of course, this is just an alternative. If we could press instead for the development of our own MRF, the MiG 29 idea that I posted on another thread, that would be better - I proposed the MiG 29 as this was designed for the Frontal Aviation. Designed for rugged fields and abuse. Easy to manufacture and maintain during wartime conditions. The only real drawback to it is its engine and avionics based on Commie tactics and control - afraid of potential deserters).

hi guys! it's been a long time since the last time i posted here. :aberet: :ssalute:

correct me if i'm wrong but as far as i know it was the F-5A/B Freedom Fighters and NOT the F-5E/F Tiger IIs that the RTAF is planning to retire from service soon. are you guys sure that the Philippine Air Force must acquire these F-5A/Bs? if you're going to ask me, it will be MUCH BETTER if we the PAF will get F-5E/Fs (which have many upgrade programs available) than those F-5A/Bs (which might just end up like the PAF F-5A/Bs). :dunno: