Security firms 'abusing Iraqis'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6097372.stm

Severed fingers reportedly sent to US

By RASHA MADKOUR, Associated Press Writer Thu Mar 13, 3:17 PM ET

Severed fingers of five Western contractors were sent to the U.S. military in Iraq, giving the men's relatives hope that they are still alive, a brother of one of the missing men said.

The men were abducted in two separate incidents that occurred a month and a half apart more than two years ago, a U.S. government official said Thursday in Washington.

The Austrian weekly magazine News first reported the delivery of the five fingers in Wednesday's edition, citing unidentified authorities working on the case.

Patrick Reuben, a Minneapolis police officer whose twin brother, Paul Reuben, is among the missing, said late Wednesday the FBI told his family members that "the fingers were confirmed to be those of the hostages."

Patrick Reuben said the news of the severed fingers was "shocking," but that the initial word the family got was "much more serious than that. Later on we found that it was fingers that were recovered and that the DNA confirmed it was the hostages."

Jackie Stewart learned her son's finger had been cut off from a reporter, and the FBI confirmed it to her later that day, she said.

"The fact that my son lost a finger is very disturbing," said Stewart, the mother of Joshua Munns. "But if they haven't killed him now, I seriously doubt they will, unless something tragic happens, something devastating."

Four of the men were guards for a convoy ambushed near the Kuwaiti border on Nov. 16, 2006. The fifth, Ronald J. Withrow, 40, of Lubbock, Texas, was a contractor working for JPI Worldwide and abducted on Jan. 5, 2007 near Basra.

In addition to Reuben, those abducted in the earlier incident were Jonathon Cote, 25, of Getzville, N.Y.; Munns, 25, of Redding, Calif.; and Bert Nussbaumer, 26, of Vienna, Austria, said the U.S. government official in Washington. The official spoke only on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record about the matter.

They were working for Crescent Security Group, a Kuwait-based private security company. Men in Iraqi police uniforms ambushed a convoy near the southern city of Safwan.

A fifth hostage taken in the Nov. 16, 2006, ambush was John Young, 45, of Lee's Summit, Mo. None of his fingers was sent to the U.S. military.

In a statement, the FBI declined to confirm the men had been identified by fingers.

"The FBI has received DNA evidence and is conducting an examination," spokesman Richard Kolko said. "We understand this is a very difficult time for the families and discussing this matter further in the media is not appropriate."

State Department spokesman Sean McCormack declined Thursday to comment on the matter except to say: "We continue to demand these hostages' immediate release so that they can be returned safely to their families."

Patrick Reuben said his family is "certainly hopeful, but there's nothing definite right now."

The father of Cote said he and other families were visited by the FBI two to three weeks ago, when they were told DNA samples had been identified as those of the hostages. The agents would not say how they had gotten the samples.

When Francis Cote read a news report about the fingers, he contacted the State Department but was given no confirmation or denial.

"They told us the FBI would visit us," Cote said.

Cote received calls Wednesday from Paul Reuben's wife, who was in tears, and Munns' mother. The hostages' families frequently contact each other to share news and compare notes, he said. Cote assured the women that the hostages were still alive.

"It's possible they did sever (the fingers) to show proof of life," Cote said. "I'm sure somebody from our government was asking for proof of life and I guess proof of life was severing a finger versus delivering a video."

Cote said he was frustrated by the government's reticence.

"We have no news, we have activity," has been the extent of officials' comments on the hostages for months, Cote said. "It's very vague."

Austrian Interior Ministry spokesman Rudolf Gollia said the report that the severed fingers had been sent to U.S. authorities was being treated as a rumor.

He said U.S. officials in Baghdad forwarded information to the Austrian Embassy in Amman, Jordan, that the Americans described only as "based on fingerprints and DNA profiles."

He said Austrian officials were trying to get more information from U.S. officials and other sources in the Middle East.

___

Associated Press writers Steve Karnowski in Minneapolis, Gene Johnson in Seattle, and Pete Yost and Douglass K. Daniel in Washington contributed to this report.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080313/ap_on_...1gemOq4yJJvzwcF

That was indeed gruelsome......

You're right, sir markinag. Remember Ann Coulter, the mouthpiece of the Conservative Party of America? She says 'I guess we have to invade them and implant our religion on them....' (Meaning that is what Usama bin Laden is telling the whole world. He wants America to convert to Islam while America guarantees freedom of religion and worship) You should aim your pen at the Left, Sir markinag.

If you condone torture and abuse in American prisons and in interrogation, that will make you no better than the people we are fighting- the Islamic Jihadists are the enemy, but that does not mean we should emulate them.

This is the 21st century and such barbaric practices should not be condoned or else we become like the terrorists themselves.

Exposing such attrocities/abuse such as Abu Ghraib was correct; American Soldiers and all Allied soldiers should be held up to a higher standard. The same should apply to PMCs/mercs in Iraq in their treatment of civilians or suspected terrorists with the continued accountability of mercs to the US military Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).

:nono:

Well, I'm the most lawful person here if you're referring to me. I should have sued you for cough, cough, cough. This is related post. You know why? I wasn't talking about Abu Ghraib and I posted news that showed how scrupulous the filipino general was in exposing the truth. Don't freakin :nono: me!!

epigone; You might think youre the most lawful person here in your own eyes but you can't see anyone behind that monitor of yours so you are only guess-t-mating.

We all have to live with epigone's loony rants if the mods will not ban him for life, he is PDFF's version of the village fool.



:armysmile:

You folks cannot exactly understand why I always have to make 'improvisations' (to quote my ex-father in law). I am beholden to your ex-intelligence chief, RD. Not only that. He can terminate my employment here through synchronized and orchestrated fashion by these freaking filipinos in this factory I'm working in. That is why Gloria ako!! I'd like to be neutral in politics, marknirag. But this freaking intel chief who told his children he was dead when they were young and then declared the truth when they reached legal age is not only amoral but freakin' dictatorial too. Fernando Poe ako!!

Sir spraret, this is a response to the posts. Please consider it as not hijacking.

NOW BACK TO THE TOPIC!! :btt:

Epigone, Sure Thing, Good Luck to YOU Out there in Canuck Land

Before going back to the topic, here are some few tips to get rid of annoyance to some nonsensical items or posts.

As we knew, we members of this forum have different levels of academic orientation and experience. Some are trying hard to prove their point based on their own analogy of things or issues that sometimes can be hindered by the lack of essence, irrelevance, and totally ignorant of the issue or lack of what not.

When comes a time that you happen to read a post which you believe is not worth replying or discussing, just ignore it and do not make any reply. A mixture of a nonsensical post and a reply would make it more unfortunate that will transform the forum into a kindergarten way of exchanging decent ideas and discussions.
This forum is an enterprise of free speech and ideas. However, to those who will overstep the boundaries will be dealt with pursuant to its rules and regulations.

Just an advice from Moderator - TOPP

Yes also need to add that i saw a few people who logged in as guests printing topics so someone is collecting your posts. But for me i am ok with that because i will be leaving here soon. Just biding my time until I am ok then off to work and the real life.... :rifle:

To me, I am more than happy if someone would collect all my posts in this forum . It only help find my target and I am totally gratified. :btt:

US 'to scrap' contractor immunity

Iraqi critics say security firms act with little concern for civilian life

The US has agreed to scrap immunity for foreign security guards in Iraq, Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari says.

The US embassy in Baghdad has not confirmed the announcement, which comes as the US and Iraq are negotiating a controversial security pact.

Foreign firms employing thousands of guards won huge contracts in Iraq after the 2003 US-led invasion, but were not subject to Iraqi or US military law.

Iraqi frustration became fury last year when guards killed 17 people in a day.

Correspondents say a deal on scrapping contractors' immunity brings the two countries closer to signing the long-term security pact.

The pact is meant to establish ground rules for a continuing US troop presence in Iraq after the UN mandate for foreign forces stationed there expires in December 2008.

'Trigger-happy'

The firm involved in the 2007 killings - Blackwater, one of the biggest security contractors in Iraq and which protects US diplomats - says its guards were acting in self-defence.

Eyewitnesses say guards of a US diplomatic convoy started shooting without provocation.

The incident brought to the fore a long-standing Iraqi complaint that the guards were little more than trigger-happy mercenaries.

In addition to the immunity question, there are also discussions about the number of permanent US military bases in Iraq, immunity for the US military and its rights to detain and imprison Iraqi citizens.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7484969.stm

A team from South Africa evacuate 120 guests from Mumbai hotel

by Alexandra Lesieur Alexandra Lesieur – 2 hrs 6 mins ago

JOHANNESBURG (AFP) – Gunshots broke out and the crowd in the famed Taj Mahal hotel panicked, but five excruciating hours later, a private South African security guard said his team succeeded in evacuating about 120 guests.

"We heard some gun shots. We barricaded the restaurant and we moved everybody into the kitchen," recalled Faisul Nagel, who happened to be on the 25th floor of the hotel tower when the attack began.

As gunfire and explosions rattled the five-star hotel, he and the six others who came here from South Africa on his team rushed the guests from the dining room lined with windows and glass doors.

"We heard some loud noise, so we opened up the window and we saw people running all around the place," Nagel told AFP by telephone in Johannesburg. "We realised there was a terrorist threat."

His team, which had come to India to provide security for the Indian Premier League's cricket championships led the guests into the kitchen and later into a conference room that provided better safety.

Using tables and refrigerators to barricade themselves in, Nagel said they armed themselves with the only weapons they could put their hands on: knives and meat cleavers.

"We basically put the lights off in the restaurant just to create an element of surprise. And we armed ourselves with kitchen knives and meat cleavers and we directed ourselves to any entrance that led to the restaurant," he said.

"We monitored the two lifts and we could see there was activity on those lifts. It kept coming up and down. (and) we waited in case anybody came up," Nagel said.

"They did not come up, but there was a lot of activity. We heard an explosion and automatic gun shots," said this guard from Nicholls Steyn and Associates.

Bob Nicholls, the security firm's British director, was also in the hotel during the attack on Wednesday, when at least 100 were killed.

"It was difficult to get information in the first few hours," he said.

Their team finally made contacts with the hotel's security chief. Faced with the threat of a fire engulfing the hotel, with a blaze already raging in part of the original hotel, they decided to evacuate.

"The people were very afraid. We briefed them of what we were doing," Nagel said.

"I told the security manager of the hotel to tell the police not to shoot," he said. "We walked everybody down the fire exit at the back of the hotel very quickly. We got them out safely," Nagel said.

He later left the site, after making sure that all of the people he evacuated could find shelter in other hotels or with friends and family.

Dozens of women were among the guests, including a 90-year-old grandmother who had trouble walking.

They had no choice but to carry her out in a chair, which they carried down all 25 flights of stairs.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081128/wl_af...PSOgtUSWb.96Q8F