I persoanlly believe that the AFP should have used the money to purchase current needs of the army like kevlar helmets, body armor, more automatic rifles(brand new not 20 or 30 years old), communicaiton system. I have mentioned this in some thread that some officials of the AFP just don't know what they are buying. In this case what would you use this for? Currently, the war is with the insurgents and I don't think those guys possess any nuclear bomb of some sort. If they want to get a recovery vehicle then just get something that is of conventional. Its just a waste of money buying something that does not fit the purpose. I think as members of this forum that we should get these "smart" guys to read our forum and learn what exactly they are getting or planning to get.

In a different thread topic about the PAF where they are in the process of buying new planes. Instead of preparing would be pilots for a possible MRFs in its fleet they go and purchase propellered trainers and probably second hand helicopters for a whopping P5 Billiion! Get jet trainers and not props, same thing as the above topic get something that's practical to the current situation.

:nono:

If i remember correcty, the ARV was put to good use during rescue operations in Luzon during a typhoon. :thumb:

The Army has its own fund allocation from the modernization fund.

I am okay for this type of machine that has this protection system. We can even use it for urban-counter terrorism ops.

The ARV is really needed, both in combat and in civil-military ops.

Better yet, get a joint-production agreement with the Turks.

55 million is only about 1 million US dollars. I say we get more of these and other variants that is suited for FIRE SUPPRESSION and FIRE SUPPORT for our group troops.

Let's say an M113 with a 30mm gatling gun is a good variant.

AFP ACQUIRES ARMORED RECOVERY VEHICLE (ARV)



The AFP Vice Chief of Staff, Lieutenant General Rodolfo C Garcia formally received from Anthony Michael Prebble, FNSS Representative, the latest addition to the armor assets inventory of the AFP, the Armored Recovery Vehicle (ARV), during a turnover ceremony held at the GHQ, AFP Grandstand, Camp Aguinaldo, Quezon City on 04 February 2004. The acquisition of the ARV is part of the capability building initiatives of the Armed Forces as outlined in its Modernization Program.

The Armored Recovery Vehicle is an armored, all terrain, amphibious, air transportable and highly maneuverable vehicle. It is fitted with a hydraulic crane mounted to the vehicle top plate and a recovery winch mounted inside the vehicle that facilitates the recovery and towing of both armored and transport vehicles during actual combat and under enemy fire. It is equipped with a pintle-mounted .50 caliber heavy machine gun and a bank of electrically operated smoke grenade launchers for its self-protection. In addition to these features, the ARV has air conditioning and Nuclear, Biological and Chemical (NBC) protection system.

This vehicle will greatly enhance the maintenance capability of the Light Armor Brigade of the Philippine Army. The ARV has a crane that has the ability to lift a variety of loads such as replacement power pack assemblies, turrets and ammunition pallets.

Aside from the battlefield, the vehicle can be used in disaster relief operations in times of calamities. Since it can carry and lift heavy equipment, it can be also used in lifting damage electrical posts, towing of damaged transport vehicle and even lifting of collapsed houses or part of collapsed building during rescue operations.

The acquisition of this vehicle will surely boost the morale of the soldiers in the field. It will hasten repairs of damaged armored vehicles, which are considered force multipliers in combat. The lesser repair time of damaged armored assets the greater the edge our government soldiers shall have over the enemies of the state.

The ARV contract was initiated in 2002 between the AFP and FNSS, when the latter won the bid for this Php 55,757,968 project. FNSS is a Turkish based joint venture company between Nurol Group of Turkey and the USA based United Defense LP, which is a leading manufacturer and supplier of armored combat vehicles and weapons systems for the Turkish and Allied Forces like United Arab Emirates and Malaysia to name a few.

The turnover rites in Camp Aguinaldo were also witnessed by His Excellency Tanju Sumer, Turkish Ambassador to the Philippines and other high ranking officials of the AFP. The ceremony is the culmination of the second modernization project of the AFP. It can be recalled that last March 2003, a total of 402 Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW), worth Php 117,432,000 were delivered to the Philippine Army and the Philippine Marines as the first major breakthrough of the AFP Modernization Program.

http://www.afp.mil.ph/afpmpmo/PROJECTS/pm2.html

More of the acquisitions here;

http://www.afp.mil.ph/afpmpmo/PROJECTS/milestones.html

GOOD JOB, AFP Web Program Director! :thumb:

Keep the public informed.

before some of us here again hit this recent purchase of the Army, let us first know what an armored recovery vehicle is...

now that you know the purpose of an ARV, do you still think this purchase is unnecessary? if you don't want the Army to buy an ARV, what would you use to repair damaged M113s and AIFVs or tow the said vehicles away from harm's way? :armyroleyes:

Take heart akimima, :thumb: people come here to learn lessons.

I guess you are right and I am wrong about my insights on this procurement. Duminus, you are also right. People who join this forum learn and share things they know and do not know. In my case, I know a little about the ARV and thus wrongly judged the procurement of the AFP. Thank you guys for enlightening me about this vehicle.

:specool: :exactly:

This ARV purchase was arguably the result of lessons learned during the 2000 campaign against the MILF. That was reportedly the largest use of Philippine Army armor in recent times. The army was ill prepared for the challenges of moving armor in Philippine terrain -- one notable lack was a track-based recovery vehicle.

Details here: How the AFP uses its armored vehicles

Could have been cheaper though if built on the chassis of existing M113s as what the Aussies did - they modified some of their M113s to ARV in-house at lower cost than buying this Turkish-made ARV which was offered Aussies but turned down. :demon:

That much... hmmm...

I agree for the need of ARVs but I think we could get some with much lower cost.

Since ARVs are on the reserves and seldom used we could have gotten something of lower cost and buy other equipments or APCs from the savings.

like these:



Price: $49,500.00



Price: $45,000. ea.

Both of European/NATO standard and NBC protected.

sheiT!

the need for the Turkish-made ARV maybe valid but I find the price exorbitant for its size and capabilities. I bet its not the actual price, akimima may just be vindicated here - as what tormentor and saver111 pointed out - and that for only a SINGLE ARV!

I wonder how many generals pocketed the excess of that vehicle's overpricing!

Here's the M-113 ARV variant which for same amount we could have acquired 10 units!

but then, did the Army ever had any other choice other than the FNSS-built ARV? :armyeek:

And that is it. How about be glad for what our AFP officials decided upon what to add to our present arsenal? No matter how some may want something else, at least something is being done with what they can afford for the moment.

why, were there no other contractors who tendered bids, or this FNSS ARV was again magically ramrodded by the greedy crocodiles?

hey, i think we are opening a big can of worms here :demon:

Hey, my post in this thread was deleted!

It was my reaction to maniegom's comments, he probably didn't like it!

what is this a moderator who takes criticisms personally and deletes arbitrarily? :headbang:

he even edited his post above and deleted the line which i commented on

i read patriot's previous post and its no longer here now :armyeek:

i think its not good for mods to just delete a post without warning the member, it was not malicious post ..

maniegom, good that he is, should not be a mod, he is too emotional and cannot take the opinions of other members objectively.

:nono:

well, since this is already a done deal, let us just be happy that the Army has done something, which is, in my honest opinion, a 180-degree turn from its old sitting duck days. :drunk: :demon:

^^yeah, you're right...

but how many of the FNSS ARV were bought?

do we have more than 1 in the inventory?

the answer is obvious. too sad to hear this corruption in the afp! :armysad: :armyfrown:

I think there is only 1 M113 ARV by FNSS. If in case of an NBC attack, it should recover all other Armored vehicles of the AFP since it is the only NBC protected vehicle we have.

That's were i don't see the logic in the purchase. why buy a NBC support vehicle when its doesn't have a NBC APC or ARMOR to recover. The funds should have been used to purchase NBC protection equipment for our AFP personnel. which would have been more practical.

sir, just a clarification...

was the M113 ARV bought because it is an NBC support vehicle or as an armored recovery vehicle?

The AFP should have upgraded basic infantry equipment first, before acquiring ARV, MBT, PUJ or AIFV. Come on guys them Reds are in the mountains and muddy terrrain. Most of this tracked and wheeled vehicles get bogged down in the rainy season anyway. I think a nice fire-support machine gun on an infantry man is much better than a gun on a tracked vehicle. They should have spent more on artillery. Just barrage suspected enemy position with howitzer shells. That would rattle their brains!!!

I would rather that the AFP spend that ridiculous amount for capable jet fighters not necessarily modern MRF's but interim fighters like the Skyhawks or K-firs. Airstrikes are more effective than artillery bombardment and airstrikes can be called at anytime and anywhere while the artillery needs to be set up stratigically to be able to reach its intended target. But a combination of the 2 would be awesome, don't you agree?

Air strike + artillery + infantry is best when combined. Also, it would be safer for our infantry.

Wouldn't it be great if our army had their own intelligence satellite, they could find the reds using thermal imaging. it would be more efficient than air strike and artillery since there'd be no guess work, only accurate deployment.

May nagkapera talaga, overpriced talaga yan :headbang:

Who would protect those precious MRF on the ground??? Infantry!!!

What kind of a question is that? Doesn't the AFP have ample ground forces to answer your silly question? :armyroleyes:

If the AFP is to purchase ground hardware better use the money wisely by buying the appropriate stuff at a right price and not overpriced hardware. Sure the AFP needs recovery vehicles but 55mil for one unit is completely absurd.

BUYING THAT TURKISH-MADE (FNSS), NBC CAPABLE ARMORED RECOVERY VEHICLE IS A WASTE OF MONEY!!!!! WHY WOULD OUR MILITARY BUY SUCH VEHICLE WITH THAT COST?? LOOK AT THE PICTURE ABOVE, IT'S A U.S. MADE, M113-BASED ARV THAT IS VERY AVAILABLE AND CAN BE BOUGHT CHEAPER THAN THE FNSS-MADE ARV... THE ONLY "HEAVY" VEHICLE THE OUR ARMRY HAS IS THE SCORPION LIGHT TANK WHICH CAN BE RECOVERED BY THE ARV PICTURED ABOVE... AND OUR MILITARY BOUGHT 1 UNIT ONLY!!!! IF THEY BOUGHT THE US-MADE ARV (ABOVE) I THINK THEY COULD HAVE ATLEAST 5+ UNITS WITH THE PRICE OF 1 FNSS ARV.

...VERY, VERY FISHY INDEED!! HMMMM....

WALANG MAPUPUNTAHAN TALAGA ANG MILITARY NATIN!! THEY'RE OUT-OF-FOCUS OR JUST PLAIN CORRUPT!!!!!

Is the turret's topside open? Has no roof?

So, in an event of an NBC attack the crew would not be able to use the gun/turret since it is exposed to open air?

From the photos, the turret is cupola type. opening the hatch would breach the NBC protection. heck, they can't even recover a vehicle in a NBC attack. all they can do is sit inside and watch everybody else without protection die.

For that price, it would have been reasonable if the turret was also NBC protected since the NBC seals for the turret bearing would be pretty expensive. and they would have to place an expensive internal air filtration system since the gun smoke would suffocate everybody inside.

Or... They can use a Remote Controlled Weapon System like the PN - MAPUA Trident Strike Sentry Gun. So that they can fire back from inside the NBC protection.

The Trident strike is a good option. but for P800,000 per unit, its too expensive.
by the look of the design. it only swivels 180. there's no rotary junction so it can't rotate in full infinite 360 degree revolutions. also, its not heavy duty enough.

A whole complete different design would be needed for the Army & Marines.

800k a piece?! Mas mahal pa sa bahay ng tita ko!?!

STILL, WHY NOT USE THIS VEHICLE RATHER THAN THE FNSS???