Title: Russian fighters (foreign updates)
Description: Su-30MK, Su35, MiG29, Su47,MiG35
Description: Su-30MK, Su35, MiG29, Su47,MiG35
Switik - July 16, 2004 02:06 AM (GMT)
moscowtimes.com
Sukhoi to Generate $1.5Bln, Export 40 Fighter Jets in '04
By Lyuba Pronina
Staff Writer
Sukhoi will export 40 fighter jets this year, maintaining its place as Russia's No. 1 arms exporter, the company chief executive said Wednesday.
"The delivery of 40 jets and the parallel modernization of craft for the domestic Air Force will allow us to keep our leading position in the medium term," Mikhail Pogosyan, general director of Sukhoi, told reporters.
Pogosyan refused to elaborate on either the type of aircraft or the countries that will receive them.
China and India have been prime purchasers of Sukhoi fighter jets. The details of arms deals are traditionally shrouded in secrecy and subject to guesswork by analysts.
China has yet to receive 24 naval Su-30MK2s from a 2003 contract and Vietnam four Su-30MKs, said Konstantin Makiyenko, deputy head of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies. Among the 40 planes, Pogosyan must also be counting the 10 Su-30MKIs to be delivered to India later this year by privately owned Irkut, Makiyenko said.
Additionally, about nine Su-24s remain to be delivered to Algeria from a 2000 contract for 22 jets, said Marat Kenzhetayev, an expert at the Center for Arms Control.
Pogosyan refused to comment on a report in Jane's Defense Weekly earlier this year that Sukhoi is close to finalizing a new deal with China for another 24 Su-30MK2s.
Last year a total of 36 Sukhoi jets were exported, including 12 Su-30MKIs delivered to India by Irkut, which also manufactures the plane.
Last year Sukhoi and Irkut reported earnings of $1.5 billion and $500 million, respectively. This year Sukhoi expects revenues to remain at the same level.
Work continues on the next-generation combat fighter, Pogosyan said, with designs to be presented to the Air Force later this year. Research on an unmanned combat aerial vehicle is also continuing, he added.
Last year Sukhoi agreed with France's Dassault Aviation and European Aeronautic Defense and Space Co. to cooperate on developing fifth-generation jets and unmanned aircraft. Pogosyan said that it will take another year for Sukhoi to decide on the scope of its cooperation with the Europeans.
The creation of the Unified Aircraft-building Corp., which is to bring Sukhoi, Irkut, MiG, Ilyushin and Tupolev under one roof, is stalled, Pogosyan said.
"There is no single position on it," he said. "The integration of the industry ... has to be tied to concrete products."
Sukhoi to Generate $1.5Bln, Export 40 Fighter Jets in '04
By Lyuba Pronina
Staff Writer
Sukhoi will export 40 fighter jets this year, maintaining its place as Russia's No. 1 arms exporter, the company chief executive said Wednesday.
"The delivery of 40 jets and the parallel modernization of craft for the domestic Air Force will allow us to keep our leading position in the medium term," Mikhail Pogosyan, general director of Sukhoi, told reporters.
Pogosyan refused to elaborate on either the type of aircraft or the countries that will receive them.
China and India have been prime purchasers of Sukhoi fighter jets. The details of arms deals are traditionally shrouded in secrecy and subject to guesswork by analysts.
China has yet to receive 24 naval Su-30MK2s from a 2003 contract and Vietnam four Su-30MKs, said Konstantin Makiyenko, deputy head of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies. Among the 40 planes, Pogosyan must also be counting the 10 Su-30MKIs to be delivered to India later this year by privately owned Irkut, Makiyenko said.
Additionally, about nine Su-24s remain to be delivered to Algeria from a 2000 contract for 22 jets, said Marat Kenzhetayev, an expert at the Center for Arms Control.
Pogosyan refused to comment on a report in Jane's Defense Weekly earlier this year that Sukhoi is close to finalizing a new deal with China for another 24 Su-30MK2s.
Last year a total of 36 Sukhoi jets were exported, including 12 Su-30MKIs delivered to India by Irkut, which also manufactures the plane.
Last year Sukhoi and Irkut reported earnings of $1.5 billion and $500 million, respectively. This year Sukhoi expects revenues to remain at the same level.
Work continues on the next-generation combat fighter, Pogosyan said, with designs to be presented to the Air Force later this year. Research on an unmanned combat aerial vehicle is also continuing, he added.
Last year Sukhoi agreed with France's Dassault Aviation and European Aeronautic Defense and Space Co. to cooperate on developing fifth-generation jets and unmanned aircraft. Pogosyan said that it will take another year for Sukhoi to decide on the scope of its cooperation with the Europeans.
The creation of the Unified Aircraft-building Corp., which is to bring Sukhoi, Irkut, MiG, Ilyushin and Tupolev under one roof, is stalled, Pogosyan said.
"There is no single position on it," he said. "The integration of the industry ... has to be tied to concrete products."
Numbers - July 22, 2004 07:03 AM (GMT)
Link
MiG plans to deliver 36 combat planes in 2004
MOSCOW (AFP) Jul 21, 2004
The Russian aircraft manufacturer MiG plans to deliver 36 MiG 29 combat planes this year to foreign buyers, 20 new aircraft and 16 modernized versions, MiG director general Valery Torianine said Wednesday.
He said the last two planes from an order of 10 MiG 29 SE fighters and two MiG 29 UB trainers left for Sudan Wednesday.
MiG's order book is currently worth 1.4 billion dollars, according to Torianine, who added that "there is a real possibility to bring it soon to two billion dollars."
MiG plans to deliver 36 combat planes in 2004
MOSCOW (AFP) Jul 21, 2004
The Russian aircraft manufacturer MiG plans to deliver 36 MiG 29 combat planes this year to foreign buyers, 20 new aircraft and 16 modernized versions, MiG director general Valery Torianine said Wednesday.
He said the last two planes from an order of 10 MiG 29 SE fighters and two MiG 29 UB trainers left for Sudan Wednesday.
MiG's order book is currently worth 1.4 billion dollars, according to Torianine, who added that "there is a real possibility to bring it soon to two billion dollars."
Shybird - July 22, 2004 10:16 AM (GMT)
the mig29 one of the coolest bird to look at
:shades:
joojump - July 22, 2004 01:04 PM (GMT)
im new to this forum having linked here from manilatonight forum
just a question, what is the difference between mig29 SE and mig29 UB?
just a question, what is the difference between mig29 SE and mig29 UB?
Banahaw - July 23, 2004 01:32 AM (GMT)
yung SE special edition siguro :D
joke aside sa totoo lang bro I dont know myself but the article says the UB is a trainer so its gotta be dual seat...
but thats just my 2centavos... ;)
joke aside sa totoo lang bro I dont know myself but the article says the UB is a trainer so its gotta be dual seat...
but thats just my 2centavos... ;)
Numbers - July 23, 2004 02:47 AM (GMT)
The UB is the 2-seat trainer version while the SE is an improved version of the S, which itself is an improved version of the Fulcrum-C.
aldon - July 23, 2004 03:13 AM (GMT)
MiG-29UB (Uchebno-Boevoi "Trainer-Combat") is a 2-seat trainer version of the MiG-29A. A 2nd cockpit was added reducing the already small fuel capacity. Chaff/flare dispensers were also removed. And the N-019 radar was replaced by an onboard simulator module, giving the UB a smaller nose section. The 'Combat' tag is misleading because the designers had really no thought in making the plane combat-capable. The UB was meant as a conversion trainer for MiG-21 and -23 pilots.
MiG29-SE is the export variant of the MiG-29S. The S variant is a further developement of single-seat MiG-29. Most notable visual difference is the bigger spine which houses an active jammer module and additional fuel tanks. An improved avionics suite also led to modifications of the wingtips and addition of antennas to the tail. Later, a modified "N-019M" radar was also installed.
MiG29-SE is the export variant of the MiG-29S. The S variant is a further developement of single-seat MiG-29. Most notable visual difference is the bigger spine which houses an active jammer module and additional fuel tanks. An improved avionics suite also led to modifications of the wingtips and addition of antennas to the tail. Later, a modified "N-019M" radar was also installed.
Fulcrumer - July 24, 2004 05:24 AM (GMT)
Unlike the MiG-29 basic version (version B), the MiG-29SE has the increased weapon load and longer range (with three external fuel tanks). Its weapons mix includes R-27T1 medium-range missiles with IRHH, RVV-AE missiles with an active radar homing head, R-27ER1 increased-range missiles with a semi-active radar homing head and R-27ET1 missiles with IRHH. The aircraft can be fitted with active ECM systems ensuring protection from radar detection, and weapons guidance aids, improved built-in check and training systems. The MiG-29SE can simultaneously engage two air targets.
israeli - May 9, 2005 07:31 AM (GMT)
http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=l...rs/200505061711
The Specter of Russian-Made Fighter Jets in Venezuela
By Stratfor
May 05, 2005, 1509 GMT
Venezuela reportedly is looking to purchase Su-27 Flanker fighters from Russia instead of the less-capable Mig-29SMT Fulcrums it previously considered. This development would constitute a provocative move by Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez -- one that would have serious implications in Latin America and beyond.
Analysis
Around the recently held Latin American Arms Show LAAD at Rio, Venezuela has expressed interest in acquiring two squadrons of Su-27 Flanker air-superiority fighters from Russia, Russian news agency RIA Novosti reported May 4. The Venezuelans apparently are interested in the base model Su-27SK, which has been out of production in Russia since Sukhoi Corp. began producing the Su-30 variants for the export market. If a contract for the reported $250 million deal is signed, the aircraft -- 20 to 24 fighters -- would be transferred to the Venezuelan air force (FAV) from the Russian air force inventory.
Venezuela's interest in the Su-27 is significant in that acquiring the aircraft would make the FAV the most potent air force in South America and the Caribbean. The Flanker has a much longer range than the Mig-29SMT Fulcrum -- which Caracas also is considering purchasing from Russia -- meaning it can operate much further from Venezuelan air space. With a combat radius of nearly 1,000 miles, a Caracas-based Su-27 could participate in dogfights over Colombia, Cuba, most of Central America and the entire Caribbean Sea. Caracas' efforts to acquire advanced weaponry will alter the security environment in Latin America -- and give the United States more to ponder as it figures out how to deal with Venezuela.
Whether the FAV chooses the MiG-29s, the Su-27s or both, the new fighters will replace its aging F-16s, which the United States provided in the early 1980s. The F-16s, which the FAV deploys in two squadrons based at El Libertador air base in Maracay, spend most of their time on the ground because of low serviceability. The U.S. government stopped supplying the FAV with spare parts for its F-16s in 2001 after the Chavez government suspended military relations with Washington. Although the FAV has managed to keep some F-16s in the air despite maintenance difficulties resulting from the embargo -- a point of pride for the FAV -- the jets' long-term serviceability is in doubt.
In February, Caracas purchased 10 Mi-17 and Mi-26 helicopters and 100,000 Kalashnikov assault rifles in a deal worth $120 million. Unlike these purchases, primarily intended to support border and internal security requirements, Su-27s would have implications far beyond Venezuela's borders.
The Su-27 is a long-range, advanced fighter capable of deploying powerful weapons. With even two squadrons of such jets, the FAV could dominate the air forces of neighboring countries. In other words, it would become the most powerful air force in Latin America, far surpassing the capabilities of Colombia, Ecuador, Peru and Brazil.
Colombia always has eyed Venezuela with suspicion, but bilateral relations have deteriorated since Chavez came to power. Colombian President Alvaro Uribe Velez has struck a nonchalant pose publicly, claiming he is not worried about the regional security implications of Chavez's arms-buying spree. Colombian media, however, recently disclosed an internal Defense Ministry memorandum that confirms Uribe is quite concerned about the Venezuelan arms build up. The administration of U.S. President George W. Bush also has voiced its concerns repeatedly in Latin America, Madrid and Moscow.
Caracas initially had expressed interest in purchasing the MiG-29SMT Fulcrum, which has a range of 465 miles if external fuel tanks are not attached. The external tanks, which have a negative impact on the fighter's performance, also take up space on the aircraft that could be used for weapons. The Su-27's range on internal fuel alone is almost twice that of the MiG-29. With no need to carry cumbersome external tanks, the Flanker can participate in aerial combat with all of its external stores stations available for missiles.
Meanwhile, in even considering the sale, Russia has a "weapon" with which to exert geopolitical pressure on the United States. In response to recent U.S. inroads along Russia's periphery, Moscow might be deciding to muddy the waters elsewhere for the United States -- and Venezuela, as a sore spot for Washington already, is a good launching pad. Certainly, forcing the United States to channel its resources from Central Asia and the Caucasus in order to counter Russian-caused problems elsewhere would relieve Moscow of some U.S. pressure.
Russia had once hinted at supplying Tu-22M Backfire bombers to China, but later backed off the sale. More recently, Moscow agreed to supply Syria with the Strelets surface-to-air missile system, despite objections from the United States and Israel. Of course, the Su-27 deal could be called off, or scaled back like the Chinese Backfire deals have been, but the political implications of the sale of Su-27s to a regime that is openly hostile to Washington would keep Washington off balance without a fighter going to Venezuela.
Relations between Caracas and Washington have deteriorated markedly since Chavez came to power, especially as Venezuela moved closer to Cuba, aligning its military planning with Havana's. In fact, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice recently said she considers relations between Washington and Caracas beyond hope of improving. With the United States beginning to refocus its attention to issues outside the Middle East, Chavez believes his country could be targeted for U.S. intervention.
Long-range, heavily armed Su-27s in the FAV's possession, however, would complicate any U.S. military intervention in the region. Air superiority -- gaining and maintaining total control of the air over the battlefield -- is essential to U.S. military planning. In any U.S. operation against Venezuela, the formidable defensive obstacle presented by squadrons of Su-27s would have to be overcome before air superiority could be achieved. Moreover, the Su-27's long range would force U.S. air and naval units to operate further from Venezuelan skies.
If Chavez can acquire surplus Russian air force Su-27s for less than the cost of new MiG-29s, he certainly would get more bang for his buck, which would help ease the fiscal strain of his rearmament program. Combined with a huge militia reserve armed with new Kalashnikov and older FAL rifles, the Su-27 would provide another layer of defense between Chavez and Washington.
The specter of Chavez's air force operating the Su-27 would give Washington -- and its allies in the region -- plenty to think about.
The Specter of Russian-Made Fighter Jets in Venezuela
By Stratfor
May 05, 2005, 1509 GMT
Venezuela reportedly is looking to purchase Su-27 Flanker fighters from Russia instead of the less-capable Mig-29SMT Fulcrums it previously considered. This development would constitute a provocative move by Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez -- one that would have serious implications in Latin America and beyond.
Analysis
Around the recently held Latin American Arms Show LAAD at Rio, Venezuela has expressed interest in acquiring two squadrons of Su-27 Flanker air-superiority fighters from Russia, Russian news agency RIA Novosti reported May 4. The Venezuelans apparently are interested in the base model Su-27SK, which has been out of production in Russia since Sukhoi Corp. began producing the Su-30 variants for the export market. If a contract for the reported $250 million deal is signed, the aircraft -- 20 to 24 fighters -- would be transferred to the Venezuelan air force (FAV) from the Russian air force inventory.
Venezuela's interest in the Su-27 is significant in that acquiring the aircraft would make the FAV the most potent air force in South America and the Caribbean. The Flanker has a much longer range than the Mig-29SMT Fulcrum -- which Caracas also is considering purchasing from Russia -- meaning it can operate much further from Venezuelan air space. With a combat radius of nearly 1,000 miles, a Caracas-based Su-27 could participate in dogfights over Colombia, Cuba, most of Central America and the entire Caribbean Sea. Caracas' efforts to acquire advanced weaponry will alter the security environment in Latin America -- and give the United States more to ponder as it figures out how to deal with Venezuela.
Whether the FAV chooses the MiG-29s, the Su-27s or both, the new fighters will replace its aging F-16s, which the United States provided in the early 1980s. The F-16s, which the FAV deploys in two squadrons based at El Libertador air base in Maracay, spend most of their time on the ground because of low serviceability. The U.S. government stopped supplying the FAV with spare parts for its F-16s in 2001 after the Chavez government suspended military relations with Washington. Although the FAV has managed to keep some F-16s in the air despite maintenance difficulties resulting from the embargo -- a point of pride for the FAV -- the jets' long-term serviceability is in doubt.
In February, Caracas purchased 10 Mi-17 and Mi-26 helicopters and 100,000 Kalashnikov assault rifles in a deal worth $120 million. Unlike these purchases, primarily intended to support border and internal security requirements, Su-27s would have implications far beyond Venezuela's borders.
The Su-27 is a long-range, advanced fighter capable of deploying powerful weapons. With even two squadrons of such jets, the FAV could dominate the air forces of neighboring countries. In other words, it would become the most powerful air force in Latin America, far surpassing the capabilities of Colombia, Ecuador, Peru and Brazil.
Colombia always has eyed Venezuela with suspicion, but bilateral relations have deteriorated since Chavez came to power. Colombian President Alvaro Uribe Velez has struck a nonchalant pose publicly, claiming he is not worried about the regional security implications of Chavez's arms-buying spree. Colombian media, however, recently disclosed an internal Defense Ministry memorandum that confirms Uribe is quite concerned about the Venezuelan arms build up. The administration of U.S. President George W. Bush also has voiced its concerns repeatedly in Latin America, Madrid and Moscow.
Caracas initially had expressed interest in purchasing the MiG-29SMT Fulcrum, which has a range of 465 miles if external fuel tanks are not attached. The external tanks, which have a negative impact on the fighter's performance, also take up space on the aircraft that could be used for weapons. The Su-27's range on internal fuel alone is almost twice that of the MiG-29. With no need to carry cumbersome external tanks, the Flanker can participate in aerial combat with all of its external stores stations available for missiles.
Meanwhile, in even considering the sale, Russia has a "weapon" with which to exert geopolitical pressure on the United States. In response to recent U.S. inroads along Russia's periphery, Moscow might be deciding to muddy the waters elsewhere for the United States -- and Venezuela, as a sore spot for Washington already, is a good launching pad. Certainly, forcing the United States to channel its resources from Central Asia and the Caucasus in order to counter Russian-caused problems elsewhere would relieve Moscow of some U.S. pressure.
Russia had once hinted at supplying Tu-22M Backfire bombers to China, but later backed off the sale. More recently, Moscow agreed to supply Syria with the Strelets surface-to-air missile system, despite objections from the United States and Israel. Of course, the Su-27 deal could be called off, or scaled back like the Chinese Backfire deals have been, but the political implications of the sale of Su-27s to a regime that is openly hostile to Washington would keep Washington off balance without a fighter going to Venezuela.
Relations between Caracas and Washington have deteriorated markedly since Chavez came to power, especially as Venezuela moved closer to Cuba, aligning its military planning with Havana's. In fact, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice recently said she considers relations between Washington and Caracas beyond hope of improving. With the United States beginning to refocus its attention to issues outside the Middle East, Chavez believes his country could be targeted for U.S. intervention.
Long-range, heavily armed Su-27s in the FAV's possession, however, would complicate any U.S. military intervention in the region. Air superiority -- gaining and maintaining total control of the air over the battlefield -- is essential to U.S. military planning. In any U.S. operation against Venezuela, the formidable defensive obstacle presented by squadrons of Su-27s would have to be overcome before air superiority could be achieved. Moreover, the Su-27's long range would force U.S. air and naval units to operate further from Venezuelan skies.
If Chavez can acquire surplus Russian air force Su-27s for less than the cost of new MiG-29s, he certainly would get more bang for his buck, which would help ease the fiscal strain of his rearmament program. Combined with a huge militia reserve armed with new Kalashnikov and older FAL rifles, the Su-27 would provide another layer of defense between Chavez and Washington.
The specter of Chavez's air force operating the Su-27 would give Washington -- and its allies in the region -- plenty to think about.
possible - January 25, 2006 07:10 PM (GMT)
Russia Sold 70 MiG-29 Jet Fighters to Algeria
MiG Aircraft Corporation of Russia has struck a deal with Algeria to deliver 70 Mig-29 jet fighters there, Interfax reports.
The contract for delivering roughly 40 MiG-29s to Algeria has been sealed some of these days, said a source with one of defense enterprises of Russia. The contract budget exceeds $1.5 billion with the settlement made both by foreign currency and for repaying the state debt of Russia, according to the source.
To be more precise, the contract guarantees the delivery of 40 planes and grants an option for 30 planes. The definite specification of MiG-29 acquired by Algeria has not been disclosed so far. It could be MiG-29SMT, as spokesmen of MiG Aircraft Corporation mentioned some time ago the desire to sell exactly these MiGs to the Middle East and North Africa.
Jan. 17, 2006 © 1991-2006 ZAO "Kommersant. Publishing House". All rights reserved.
http://www.kommersant.com/page.asp?id=-7965
DATE:24/01/06
SOURCE:Flight International
Algeria to buy 40 MiG-29s
Algeria’s interest in buying new MiG-29s emerged almost two years ago, when it rejected an offer of Sukhoi Su-30MK fighters in favour of an RSK MiG package (Flight International, 16-22 March 2004). While the details of the order are unclear, it is believed to include aircraft similar in specification to the Russian air force’s MiG-29SMT and an export version supplied to Yemen last year.
Algeria’s current MiG-29s were acquired from Belarus and Ukraine.
© Reed Business Information 2006 [v2.165.4]
http://www.flightinternational.com/Article...0+MiG-29s+.html
Algeria's Al Quwwat Al Djawia Al Djaza'eria is already one of the most powerful and comprehensively-equipped aerial fleets in North Africa:
This MiG-25RBsh was seen shortly after being upgraded. 510e Escadron de Reconnaissance at Aïn Oussera fly this mighty aircraft.
http://www.scramble.nl/dz.htm
MiG Aircraft Corporation of Russia has struck a deal with Algeria to deliver 70 Mig-29 jet fighters there, Interfax reports.
The contract for delivering roughly 40 MiG-29s to Algeria has been sealed some of these days, said a source with one of defense enterprises of Russia. The contract budget exceeds $1.5 billion with the settlement made both by foreign currency and for repaying the state debt of Russia, according to the source.
To be more precise, the contract guarantees the delivery of 40 planes and grants an option for 30 planes. The definite specification of MiG-29 acquired by Algeria has not been disclosed so far. It could be MiG-29SMT, as spokesmen of MiG Aircraft Corporation mentioned some time ago the desire to sell exactly these MiGs to the Middle East and North Africa.
Jan. 17, 2006 © 1991-2006 ZAO "Kommersant. Publishing House". All rights reserved.
http://www.kommersant.com/page.asp?id=-7965
DATE:24/01/06
SOURCE:Flight International
Algeria to buy 40 MiG-29s
Algeria’s interest in buying new MiG-29s emerged almost two years ago, when it rejected an offer of Sukhoi Su-30MK fighters in favour of an RSK MiG package (Flight International, 16-22 March 2004). While the details of the order are unclear, it is believed to include aircraft similar in specification to the Russian air force’s MiG-29SMT and an export version supplied to Yemen last year.
Algeria’s current MiG-29s were acquired from Belarus and Ukraine.
© Reed Business Information 2006 [v2.165.4]
http://www.flightinternational.com/Article...0+MiG-29s+.html
Algeria's Al Quwwat Al Djawia Al Djaza'eria is already one of the most powerful and comprehensively-equipped aerial fleets in North Africa:
This MiG-25RBsh was seen shortly after being upgraded. 510e Escadron de Reconnaissance at Aïn Oussera fly this mighty aircraft.
http://www.scramble.nl/dz.htm
spiderweb6969 - February 4, 2006 10:04 AM (GMT)
Belarus to buy 18 Sukhoi jets from India
Moscow, Feb 03: In an estimated USD 300 million deal, Belarus is to buy 18 second-hand Sukhoi SU-30k fighters from India for the modernisation of the aging Air Force of this former Soviet Republic.
According to influential financial daily "Vedomosti", 18 SU-30k fighters with limited capabilities were supplied to the Indian Air Force in 1997-98 at the initial stage of USD 4.9 billion Sukhoi deal for the development of a multi-role warbird SU-30MKI specially tailored for its specific requirements.
Cash-strapped Belarus would modernise the SU-30k jets to the su-30kn at its facilities with the help of "Russkaya Avionika" (Russian Avionics) company, a subsidiary of original manufacturer "Irkut" corporation. Sources in the aviation industry and Russian air force have confirmed the report, according to "Vedomosti".
Belarus is expected to field jets acquired from India against F-16s received by neighbouring Poland after it joined Nato, the sources say.
Under the deal for the supply of 50 SU-30 multi-role fighters signed in 1996, Russia had initially supplied 18 su-30k fighters with the limited capabilities, which were mainly used by the Indian Air Force as air defence platforms and were to be flown to Russia for upgradation to MKI standard capable of using sophisticated weapons against land and sea targets.
In 2004 Irkut Corporation had completed the deliveries of remaining 32 SU-30mki fighters and licensed production of 140 fighters has commenced at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).
Bureau Report
Moscow, Feb 03: In an estimated USD 300 million deal, Belarus is to buy 18 second-hand Sukhoi SU-30k fighters from India for the modernisation of the aging Air Force of this former Soviet Republic.
According to influential financial daily "Vedomosti", 18 SU-30k fighters with limited capabilities were supplied to the Indian Air Force in 1997-98 at the initial stage of USD 4.9 billion Sukhoi deal for the development of a multi-role warbird SU-30MKI specially tailored for its specific requirements.
Cash-strapped Belarus would modernise the SU-30k jets to the su-30kn at its facilities with the help of "Russkaya Avionika" (Russian Avionics) company, a subsidiary of original manufacturer "Irkut" corporation. Sources in the aviation industry and Russian air force have confirmed the report, according to "Vedomosti".
Belarus is expected to field jets acquired from India against F-16s received by neighbouring Poland after it joined Nato, the sources say.
Under the deal for the supply of 50 SU-30 multi-role fighters signed in 1996, Russia had initially supplied 18 su-30k fighters with the limited capabilities, which were mainly used by the Indian Air Force as air defence platforms and were to be flown to Russia for upgradation to MKI standard capable of using sophisticated weapons against land and sea targets.
In 2004 Irkut Corporation had completed the deliveries of remaining 32 SU-30mki fighters and licensed production of 140 fighters has commenced at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).
Bureau Report
Chowking - February 9, 2006 04:53 PM (GMT)
WOW :wow: :specool: MIG29 FULCRUM :mademyd:
spiderweb6969 - June 17, 2006 11:06 PM (GMT)
Chowking - June 18, 2006 04:54 PM (GMT)
IS THIS IS THE AC RUSSIA HAVE BEEN OFFERING US IT IS SAID BY MILITARY sOURCE IN BANGLADESH
i think this is mig29 m2 not m1
i think this is mig29 m2 not m1
Zero wing - March 8, 2007 04:21 PM (GMT)
I think the best way is to buy aircrafts but buy their equpment from western besides the US but other countries what do u think of the Sukhoi Su-30MKI as a good multi role with equp from other US or others :patrioticpinoy:
israeli - March 8, 2007 04:35 PM (GMT)
the Su-30MK... my favorite Russian-made bird (aside from the Mi-24 Hind and the Mi-8 Hip) and, in my honest opinion, a very suited plane for the PAF given its endurance and high weapons payload. :thumb:
however, should the Air Force decide to get Su-30MKs, it should be more hybrid of both Western and Russian technology similar to the Indian Su-30MKIs and Malaysian Su-30MKMs. the Philippines should also secure the right to license-build parts for the said planes and to have a Sukhoi in-house repair center based here.
however, should the Air Force decide to get Su-30MKs, it should be more hybrid of both Western and Russian technology similar to the Indian Su-30MKIs and Malaysian Su-30MKMs. the Philippines should also secure the right to license-build parts for the said planes and to have a Sukhoi in-house repair center based here.
jammerjamesky - March 8, 2007 07:07 PM (GMT)
Su-30MKK/ MKI versions or Mig-29 seen in the future inventory should be integrated to western avionics. Does it sounds good ? Russian platform with western avionics ala L-159 style.
Options ko lang for avionics integrator are;
Israel Aircraft Industry
Aerovodochy
Polish company.
Options ko lang for avionics integrator are;
Israel Aircraft Industry
Aerovodochy
Polish company.
Zero wing - March 9, 2007 02:06 PM (GMT)
but why not build one here
Marschall - March 9, 2007 03:40 PM (GMT)
I thnk the MIG-29OVT variant would be more accessible for the PAF at the moment.
MSantor - March 9, 2007 04:50 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Zero wing @ Mar 9 2007, 12:21 AM) |
| I think the best way is to buy aircrafts but buy their equpment from western besides the US but other countries what do u think of the Sukhoi Su-30MKI as a good multi role with equp from other US or others :patrioticpinoy: |
HOY! ULOL! ZERO WING!
Let me correct your sorry ass grammar again!!!! :headbang:
| QUOTE |
| I think the best way is not to buy Russian-designed aircraft, but to buy equipment from Western nations besides the US. What do youu think of the Sukhoi Su-30MKI as a good multi role fighter as to opposed to buying from US or others? |
DAMN, that was such a PAIN to correct. So many redundancies not to mention lack of proper grammar, punctuation and spelling.
And by the way, to equip is spelled "EQUIP", you nitwit.
As for your SU-30 suggestion, I think it maybe a good idea- it's about time we considered other sources aside from the US or Western Europe or Sweden.
israeli - March 9, 2007 04:56 PM (GMT)
my favorite next-generation Russian-built MRF for the PAF: the Su-30MK Flanker. :thumb:
akimima - March 9, 2007 07:37 PM (GMT)
Although I am a K-Fir fan, for this thread's question, I am torn between 3 aircrafts. Each has its own pros and cons:
Lets start with the Mirage 2000:
Type Multirole fighter aircraft
Manufacturer Dassault Aviation
Maiden flight 1978-03-10
Introduced June 1984
Primary users French Air Force
Indian Air Force
ROC Air Force
Hellenic Air Force
Number built 611
Unit cost US$23 million
Developed from Dassault Mirage III
Variants Dassault Mirage 2000N/2000D
Dassault Mirage 4000
General characteristics
Crew: 1
Length: 14.36 m (50 ft 3 in)
Wingspan: 9.13 m (29 ft)
Height: 5.30 m (17 ft 5 in)
Wing area: 41 m² (441.32 ft²)
Empty weight: 7,600 kg (17,000 lb)
Loaded weight: 13,800 kg (30,420 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 17,000 kg (37,500 lb)
Powerplant: 1× SNECMA M53-P2 afterburning turbofan, 95 kN (21,400 lbf)
Performance
Maximum speed: (Mach 2.2) altitude
Range: 1,480 km (770 nm, 890 mi)
Service ceiling: 18,000 m (59,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 285 m/s (56,000 ft/min)
Wing loading: 337 kg/m² (69 lb/ft²)
Thrust/weight: 0.70
Armament
Guns: 2× 30 mm (1.18 in) DEFA cannons
Missiles: 4× MBDA MICA air-to-air missiles
Second would be the Chinese JF-17:
Type Multirole fighter
Manufacturer Chengdu
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex
Maiden flight 3 September 2003
Introduced 2007 (estimated)
Status In development
Primary users Pakistan Air Force (launch customer)
PLA Air Force
Number built 4 prototypes so far
Unit cost Estimated $15-20 million USD
Developed from Chengdu J-7
General characteristics
Crew: 1 pilot
Length: 14.97 m (49 ft 1 in)
Wingspan: 9.46 m (31 ft 0 in)
Height: 4.77 m (15 ft 8 in)
Wing area: m² (ft²)
Empty weight: 6,411 kg (14,134 lb)
Loaded weight: 10,072 kg (22,205 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 15,474 kg (34,114 lb)
Powerplant: 1× Russian-made RD-93 turbofan (81.3 kN) (Production version to have further improved RD-93B with 10% more thrust. For the long term, TVT or thrust vectoring nozzle to enhance maneuverability will also be an option in the future upon customer's request) , 8,290 kgf (18,277 lbf)
Performance
Maximum speed: Mach 1.8 (1,370 mph) at high altitude
Range: 3,000 km (1,864 mi)
Service ceiling: 20,500 m (50,000 ft)
Wing loading: kg/m² (lb/ft²)
Armament
One internal GSh-23-2 twin-barrel 23 mm cannon
Short (PL-9C/AIM-9M/Magic 2) and beyond-visual-range missiles (SD-10/Aspide), laser guided bombs, other guided munitions and targeting pod can also be carried for precision strike missions
Avionics
Italian FIAR Grifo S-7 on Pakistani-built export versions (The Radar for Pakistan Air Force's JF-17 is not yet decided. However, early PAF JF-17s will most probably be equipped with Chinese radars which the PLAAF will also be using.)
Global Positioning System
Head-up display (HUD), infra-red search-and-track (IRST) system (external), night-vision goggle (NVG) capability and Fly-by-Wire (FBW
Although this plane is still under development, its worth watching it and testing it in the near future. It is probably 20-40% cheaper that most US made MRF's
Lastly, is the EuroFighter Typhoon. Its probably more expensive than the 2 listed above but when the economy does pick up in the near future, the PAF can consider this as well. US fighters good as they claim to be are highly over-rated and are publicized too much. That's the very reason why they get so much sales. With the technology of aerodynamics going international, other first world and even 2nd and 3rd world countries have already caught up with the US and Uk in terms of aircraft production.
Type Multirole fighter
Manufacturer Eurofighter GmbH
Maiden flight 27 March 1994
Introduced 2003
Status Operational
Primary users Royal Air Force
Luftwaffe
Aeronautica Militare Italiana
Spanish Air Force
Number built 114 (as of February 2007) [1]
Developed from British Aerospace EAP
Variants Eurofighter Typhoon variants
:thumb:
Lets start with the Mirage 2000:
Type Multirole fighter aircraft
Manufacturer Dassault Aviation
Maiden flight 1978-03-10
Introduced June 1984
Primary users French Air Force
Indian Air Force
ROC Air Force
Hellenic Air Force
Number built 611
Unit cost US$23 million
Developed from Dassault Mirage III
Variants Dassault Mirage 2000N/2000D
Dassault Mirage 4000
General characteristics
Crew: 1
Length: 14.36 m (50 ft 3 in)
Wingspan: 9.13 m (29 ft)
Height: 5.30 m (17 ft 5 in)
Wing area: 41 m² (441.32 ft²)
Empty weight: 7,600 kg (17,000 lb)
Loaded weight: 13,800 kg (30,420 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 17,000 kg (37,500 lb)
Powerplant: 1× SNECMA M53-P2 afterburning turbofan, 95 kN (21,400 lbf)
Performance
Maximum speed: (Mach 2.2) altitude
Range: 1,480 km (770 nm, 890 mi)
Service ceiling: 18,000 m (59,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 285 m/s (56,000 ft/min)
Wing loading: 337 kg/m² (69 lb/ft²)
Thrust/weight: 0.70
Armament
Guns: 2× 30 mm (1.18 in) DEFA cannons
Missiles: 4× MBDA MICA air-to-air missiles
Second would be the Chinese JF-17:
Type Multirole fighter
Manufacturer Chengdu
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex
Maiden flight 3 September 2003
Introduced 2007 (estimated)
Status In development
Primary users Pakistan Air Force (launch customer)
PLA Air Force
Number built 4 prototypes so far
Unit cost Estimated $15-20 million USD
Developed from Chengdu J-7
General characteristics
Crew: 1 pilot
Length: 14.97 m (49 ft 1 in)
Wingspan: 9.46 m (31 ft 0 in)
Height: 4.77 m (15 ft 8 in)
Wing area: m² (ft²)
Empty weight: 6,411 kg (14,134 lb)
Loaded weight: 10,072 kg (22,205 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 15,474 kg (34,114 lb)
Powerplant: 1× Russian-made RD-93 turbofan (81.3 kN) (Production version to have further improved RD-93B with 10% more thrust. For the long term, TVT or thrust vectoring nozzle to enhance maneuverability will also be an option in the future upon customer's request) , 8,290 kgf (18,277 lbf)
Performance
Maximum speed: Mach 1.8 (1,370 mph) at high altitude
Range: 3,000 km (1,864 mi)
Service ceiling: 20,500 m (50,000 ft)
Wing loading: kg/m² (lb/ft²)
Armament
One internal GSh-23-2 twin-barrel 23 mm cannon
Short (PL-9C/AIM-9M/Magic 2) and beyond-visual-range missiles (SD-10/Aspide), laser guided bombs, other guided munitions and targeting pod can also be carried for precision strike missions
Avionics
Italian FIAR Grifo S-7 on Pakistani-built export versions (The Radar for Pakistan Air Force's JF-17 is not yet decided. However, early PAF JF-17s will most probably be equipped with Chinese radars which the PLAAF will also be using.)
Global Positioning System
Head-up display (HUD), infra-red search-and-track (IRST) system (external), night-vision goggle (NVG) capability and Fly-by-Wire (FBW
Although this plane is still under development, its worth watching it and testing it in the near future. It is probably 20-40% cheaper that most US made MRF's
Lastly, is the EuroFighter Typhoon. Its probably more expensive than the 2 listed above but when the economy does pick up in the near future, the PAF can consider this as well. US fighters good as they claim to be are highly over-rated and are publicized too much. That's the very reason why they get so much sales. With the technology of aerodynamics going international, other first world and even 2nd and 3rd world countries have already caught up with the US and Uk in terms of aircraft production.
Type Multirole fighter
Manufacturer Eurofighter GmbH
Maiden flight 27 March 1994
Introduced 2003
Status Operational
Primary users Royal Air Force
Luftwaffe
Aeronautica Militare Italiana
Spanish Air Force
Number built 114 (as of February 2007) [1]
Developed from British Aerospace EAP
Variants Eurofighter Typhoon variants
:thumb:
Marschall - March 9, 2007 09:25 PM (GMT)
The Typhoon is too expensive and to costly to maintain. And they often have technical problems: Short after the crash of the OV-10 bomber, a Typhoon also crashed in the same way....millions of euros...crap just like that...
Let's rather have some cheaper MRFs and few high-tech ones like Su-30 or Gripen.
Let's rather have some cheaper MRFs and few high-tech ones like Su-30 or Gripen.
akimima - March 9, 2007 11:03 PM (GMT)
Thanks for the info Marschal! Big piece of crap pala iyang Typhoon na iyan. At least you have narrowed my choices to 2 the JF-17 and the Mirage 2000.
SA Tirad0r - March 9, 2007 11:31 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Marschall @ Mar 9 2007, 11:40 PM) |
| I thnk the MIG-29OVT variant would be more accessible for the PAF at the moment. |
I klaro niyo muna kay Presidente Bush kung puedeng bumili kay Tito Vladimir saka kay Tito Jintao. Lam mo naman ang Pinas sunud sunuran sa gusto ng Tate. so called Allies.
SA Tirad0r - March 9, 2007 11:37 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Marschall @ Mar 10 2007, 05:25 AM) |
| The Typhoon is too expensive and to costly to maintain. And they often have technical problems: Short after the crash of the OV-10 bomber, a Typhoon also crashed in the same way....millions of euros...crap just like that... Let's rather have some cheaper MRFs and few high-tech ones like Su-30 or Gripen. |
Iyan ang problema pag multinational conglomerate ang gumagawa ng jet fighter. Ma pa Panavia Tornado....Jaguar Sepecat...basta joint European Design alang kuenta. Mabuti pa ang Dassault na eroplano battle tested. Humahabol na rin ang Israel sa technology. Grippen di ko pa nakikita in action. We'll see how it compares to the US fighters in action.
akimima - March 9, 2007 11:43 PM (GMT)
Having a foreign plane built in the Philippines may take a while to materialize. The Kalakian project undergone by a local manufacturer just stopped all of a sudden. It was a good start but with politics and more politics, AFP went for the Simba and left the Kalakian as a museum piece for now. Now to get a license from a foreign plane manufacturer SU-30 MKI, in this case Russia, I am guessing more politics and corruption will be involved. The goverment and the AFP must get their act together and just throw out the window that ever dangerous culture Crab Mentality. It destroys the beautiful plan of modernization and economic rennaisance of the Philippines. Unless this is put in check we will never see a plane, tank and ship factories in the Philippines.
Marschall - March 9, 2007 11:43 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (akimima @ Mar 10 2007, 07:03 AM) |
| Thanks for the info Marschal! Big piece of crap pala iyang Typhoon na iyan. At least you have narrowed my choices to 2 the JF-17 and the Mirage 2000. |
No problem...
The German Government ordered some Typhoons until they found out about technical problems: short action range, it couldn't even load the board cannon, no missiles etc. etc. the Government was forced to pay more coz if not, we would have had useless multi-million jets here...
akimima - March 10, 2007 12:00 AM (GMT)
Tama ka dyan Sir Marschall! Buti na lang at hindi pa nabili. Kaya pala tinawag iyan na Typhoon....disaster plane pala yung design.
Marschall - March 10, 2007 12:04 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (akimima @ Mar 10 2007, 08:00 AM) |
| Tama ka dyan Sir Marschall! Buti na lang at hindi pa nabili. Kaya pala tinawag iyan na Typhoon....disaster plane pala yung design. |
Kaya nga ok lang kung Chino or Russian jet...pag-masira, ok lang kasi mas mura naman :aberet:
akimima - March 10, 2007 12:12 AM (GMT)
Kaya lang kawawa naman yung mga pilot kung ganon. Sana advance yung escape features nito kahit na palpak yung mga ibang components. Kung pagpipilian kung Chinese o Russian, sa Russian na at least may proven record na sila sa mga aircrafts. Yung Chinese although mura yung presyo, hindi pa siguro ganong ka galing. Given time siguro gaganda na yung quality ng mga aircraft nila.
:specool:
:specool:
Marschall - March 10, 2007 12:17 AM (GMT)
I have to say though that Russians buid the best seat ejectors...better than the Western countries.
Maybe we can buy cheap Chinese planes and integrate Russian ejectors and use Western arms... A halo-halo plane :armyLol:
Maybe we can buy cheap Chinese planes and integrate Russian ejectors and use Western arms... A halo-halo plane :armyLol:
Marschall - March 10, 2007 12:22 AM (GMT)
phichanad - March 16, 2007 02:51 AM (GMT)
which do you think is better between the 2 chinese built fighters, the J-10 or the JF-17? I think the J-10 has a more modern design between the 2...
Numbers - March 16, 2007 04:38 AM (GMT)
The J-10 is the higher end aircraft, the JF-17 is for mass market export.
China uses proven Russian ejection seat mechanisms.
China uses proven Russian ejection seat mechanisms.
israeli - March 16, 2007 12:23 PM (GMT)
want to have an INSTANT fleet of Su-30s? it seems like the Su-30K Flankers of the Indian Air Force are "available" for possible takers given the recent turn of events...
News Article 1:
News Article 1:
| QUOTE |
| Belarus to buy 18 IAF SU30K zeenews.com Moscow, Feb 03: In an estimated USD 300 million deal, Belarus is to buy 18 second-hand Sukhoi SU-30k fighters from India for the modernisation of the aging Air Force of this former Soviet Republic. According to influential financial daily "Vedomosti", 18 SU-30k fighters with limited capabilities were supplied to the Indian Air Force in 1997-98 at the initial stage of USD 4.9 billion Sukhoi deal for the development of a multi-role warbird SU-30MKI specially tailored for its specific requirements. Cash-strapped Belarus would modernise the SU-30k jets to the su-30kn at its facilities with the help of "Russkaya Avionika" (Russian Avionics) company, a subsidiary of original manufacturer "Irkut" corporation. Sources in the aviation industry and Russian air force have confirmed the report, according to "Vedomosti". Belarus is expected to field jets acquired from India against F-16s received by neighbouring Poland after it joined Nato, the sources say. Under the deal for the supply of 50 SU-30 multi-role fighters signed in 1996, Russia had initially supplied 18 su-30k fighters with the limited capabilities, which were mainly used by the Indian Air Force as air defence platforms and were to be flown to Russia for upgradation to MKI standard capable of using sophisticated weapons against land and sea targets. In 2004 Irkut Corporation had completed the deliveries of remaining 32 SU-30mki fighters and licensed production of 140 fighters has commenced at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). |
however, in News Article 2, the Belarus government denied that it is to buy those Indian Su-30Ks:
| QUOTE |
| Byelorussia Has not Bought Fighters from India http://www.royfc.com Byelorussian military personnel are refuting the information published by some media that Minsk intends to purchase a batch of Su-30 fighter airplanes in India, Interfax is reporting. “I am hearing this for the first time. There is no such decision – this is precise. Some rumors have been going around, but I have not seen any concrete documents as regards this question. Apparently, these are some kind of proposals,” Byelorussia’s deputy air force and air defense troops commander and aviation chief, General-Major Mikhail Levitskiy declared. As they announced at Byelorussia’s ministry of defense press service, “there is not a word about the Su-30 fighter” in the arms development program for 2006 – 2015 which has been approved by the country’s president. Let us recall that earlier a number of media were spreading information that Byelorussia intends to buy from India 18 Su-30K fighters, which had been delivered to that country from Russia in 1997 – 1993. Source: 06.02.06, Interfax |
could it be possible that the IAF Su-30K Flankers are still available for purchase by possible takers such as the Philippine Air Force? as far as i know, these planes, although limited versions of the Su-30MK that were originally intended for Indonesia, could be upgraded into Su-30MK standard.
oh well, more discussions about the "botched" sale of Indian Su-30Ks to Belarus here.
more information about the Su-30K can be seen at bharat-rakshak.com
akimima - March 16, 2007 04:06 PM (GMT)
Sir Israeli,
Nice find. Pwede na ito kaysa what we have right now. If the AFP can negotiate with the Indian Government with some trade in deal of some sort, why not? Philippines and India have been in good relation for many years and I am sure some deal can be struck if the AFP makes a move soon before these rare finds go somewhere else.
I have limited knowledge on this aircraft and other Russian made planes. Only know them through sparse research over the web. Correct me if I am wrong but is this plane comparable to a US F16 (early model) or a French Mirage 2000? :thumb:
Nice find. Pwede na ito kaysa what we have right now. If the AFP can negotiate with the Indian Government with some trade in deal of some sort, why not? Philippines and India have been in good relation for many years and I am sure some deal can be struck if the AFP makes a move soon before these rare finds go somewhere else.
I have limited knowledge on this aircraft and other Russian made planes. Only know them through sparse research over the web. Correct me if I am wrong but is this plane comparable to a US F16 (early model) or a French Mirage 2000? :thumb:
israeli - March 16, 2007 04:30 PM (GMT)
hi akimima! :armysmile:
well, to answer your question, these same Su-30Ks were able to "beat" USAF F-15Es in one of the more recent Cope India exercises between Indian and American forces.
well, to answer your question, these same Su-30Ks were able to "beat" USAF F-15Es in one of the more recent Cope India exercises between Indian and American forces.
| QUOTE |
| 3rd Wing Explains 'Cope India' Exercise Aviation Week & Space Technology 10/04/2004, page 50 David A. Fulghum Elmendorf AFB, Alaska 3rd Wing explains what happened when U.S. pilots faced innovative Indian air force tactics Indian 'Scare' The losing performance of F-15Cs in simulated air-to-air combat against the Indian air force this year is being perceived by some, both in the U.S. and overseas, as a weakening of American capabilities, and it is generating taunts from within the competitive U.S. fighter community. The Cope India exercise also seemingly shocked some in Congress and the Pentagon who used the event to renew the call for modernizing the U.S. fighter force with stealthy F/A-22s and F-35 Joint Strike Fighters. The reasons for the drubbing have gone largely unexplained and been misunderstood, according to those based here with the 3rd Wing who participated. Two major factors stand out: None of the six 3rd Wing F-15Cs was equipped with the newest long-range, active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars. These Raytheon APG-63(V)2 radars were designed to find small and stealthy targets. At India's request, the U.S. agreed to mock combat at 3-to-1 odds and without the use of simulated long-range, radar-guided AIM-120 Amraams that even the odds with beyond-visual-range kills. These same U.S. participants say the Indian pilots showed innovation and flexibility in their tactics. They also admit that they came into the exercise underrating the training and tactics of the pilots they faced. Instead of typical Cold War-style, ground-controlled interceptions, the Indians varied aircraft mixes, altitudes and formations. Indian air force planners never reinforced failure or repeated tactics that the U.S. easily repelled. Moreover, the IAF's airborne commanders changed tactics as opportunities arose. Nor did U.S. pilots believe they faced only India's top guns. Instead, they said that at least in some units they faced a mix of experienced and relatively new Indian fighter and strike pilots. Maj. Mark A. Snowden, the 3rd Wing's chief of air-to-air tactics and a participant in Cope India, spoke for the 13 U.S. pilots who attended the exercise. They flew six F-15Cs, each equipped with a fighter data link for rapid exchange of target information, AIM-9Xs and a Joint Helmet-Mounted Cueing System, he says. The aircraft had been to Singapore for another exercise and for the long, six-week jaunt it was decided not to bring along the additional maintenance package needed to support AESA-equipped F-15Cs. Cope India was held Feb. 15-28 at Gwalior, about 150 mi. south of Delhi, where the Indian air force has its Tactics Air Combat Development Establishment, which operates late-model MiG-21 Fishbeds as fighter escorts and MiG-27 Floggers as strike aircraft. Aerospace officials who have heard the classified brief on the exercise say the MiG-21s were equipped with a "gray-market" Bison radar and avionics upgrade. Mica-armed Dassault Mirages 2000s are also stationed there. Brought in for the exercise were Sukhoi Su-30s (but not the newest Su-30 MKIs) carrying simulated AA-11s and AA-12 Adders. There also were five MiG-29 Flankers involved in a peripheral role and an Antonov An-32 Cline as a simulated AWACS. "The outcome of the exercise boils down to [the fact that] they ran tactics that were more advanced than we expected," Snowden says. "India had developed its own air tactics somewhat in a vacuum. They had done some training with the French that we knew about, but we did not expect them to be a very well-trained air force. That was silly. "They could come up with a game plan, but if it wasn't working they would call an audible and change [tactics in flight]," he says. "They made good decisions about when to bring their strikers in. The MiG-21s would be embedded with a Flogger for integral protection. There was a data link between the Flankers that was used to pass information. [Using all their assets,] they built a very good [radar] picture of what we were doing and were able to make good decisions about when to roll [their aircraft] in and out." Aerospace industry officials say there's some indication that the MiG-21s also may have been getting a data feed from other airborne radars that gave them improved situational awareness of the airborne picture. Generally the combat scenario was to have four F-15s flying at any time against about 12 Indian aircraft. While the U.S. pilots normally train to four versus 12, that takes into account at least two of the U.S. aircraft having AESA radar and being able to make the first, beyond-visual-range shots. For the exercise, both sides restricted long-range shots. "That's what the Indians wanted to do," Snowden says. "That [handicap] really benefits a numerically superior force because you can't whittle away some of their force at long range. They were simulating active missiles [including] AA-12s." This means the missile has its own radar transmitter and doesn't depend on the launch aircraft's radar after launch. With the older AA-10 Alamo, the launching fighter has to keep its target illuminated with radar so the U.S. pilots would know when they were being targeted. But with the AA-12, they didn't know if they had been targeted. The Mirage 2000s carried the active Mica missile. Aerospace industry officials said that some of the radars the U.S. pilots encountered, including that of the Mirage 2000s, exhibited different characteristics than those on standard versions of the aircraft. The U.S. pilots used no active missiles, and the AIM-120 Amraam capability was limited to a 20-naut.-mi. range while keeping the target illuminated when attacking and 18 naut. mi. when defending, as were all the missiles in the exercise. "When we saw that they were a more professional air force, we realized that within the constraints of the exercise we were going to have a very difficult time," Snowden says. "In general, it looked like they ran a broad spectrum of tactics and they were adaptive. They would analyze what we were doing and then try something else. They weren't afraid to bring the strikers in high or low. They would move them around so that we could never anticipate from day to day what we were going to see." By comparison, the U.S. pilots don't think they offered the Indians any surprises. The initial tactic is to run a wall with all four F-15s up front. That plays well when the long-range missiles and AESA radar are in play. "You know we're there and we're not hiding," Snowden says. "But we didn't have the beyond-visual-range shot or the numerical advantage. Eventually we were just worn down by the numbers. They were very smart about it. Their goal was to get to a target area, engage the target and then withdraw without prolonging the fight. If there were a couple of Eagles still alive away from the target area, they would keep them pinned in, get done with the target and then egress with all their forces. "All their aircraft seemed to be capable of breaking out [targets] and shooting at the ranges the exercise allowed," he says. "We generally don't train to an active missile threat [like the Mirage's Mica or the AA-12 for the Russian-built aircraft], and that was one of the things that caused us some problems." USAF planners here see Cope India as the first step in an annual series of exchange exercises. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1237790/posts |
if we are to base our conclusions on the results of the said military exercises, we could say that Su-30s could beat the hell out of F-15Es but in actual combat, it would still boil down on how well-trained the pilots are.
by the way, it seems like the Indians are contemplating about the future of their Su-30Ks. they are now thinking of "trading-in" the Su-30Ks for newer and more powerful Su-30MKIs. perhaps we could get the Su-30Ks from the Russians either by leasing them as we wait for our own Su-30MKs (that is, if we are to select Su-30MKs as our next-generation MRFs) or purchasing them outright and have them upgraded to Su-30MK standards (which could cost us some large amount of money).
Havoc - March 16, 2007 04:37 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (akimima @ Mar 17 2007, 12:06 AM) |
| Correct me if I am wrong but is this plane comparable to a US F16 (early model) or a French Mirage 2000? :thumb: |
Comparable to a early model F-16 or a Mirage 2000? No disrespect, but are you joking??? The F-16 is not even in the same league with the Su-30. Even the later verson F-16s in my opinion are not even comparable to the Su-30.
israeli - March 16, 2007 04:43 PM (GMT)
take note that the Su-30K is actually a "downgraded" version of the Su-30MK, with more limited capabilities as compared to the more modern Sukhoi. however, the Su-30K could be upgraded to Su-30MK standard if funds and political will would allow. :devilwink:
how could a "downgraded" Su-30MK, the Su-30K, "beat the hell" out of USAF F-15s during the Cope India exercises? :demon:
how could a "downgraded" Su-30MK, the Su-30K, "beat the hell" out of USAF F-15s during the Cope India exercises? :demon: