Mga peeps, originally I was to post this to inquire (uli) what's the sidearm our snipers use (can't find the response thread but I recall its a M6 something which if I recall right is the shortened M16). But i-broaden ko na for the rest of what our operators use. Officers ba have shifted to M9s na nga ba (that's what I saw with some PMA graduates)? Some SRs still use 1911s (as from TV videos ng Balikatan exercises). How about the others. Mga machinegunners? Do we still have dedicated grenadiers (yun naka M79 o M203) - heck, what happened to that local semi-auto man-portable mag-fed grenade launcher na ala KG-9 on steroids? From what I know wala atang gumagamit ng shotgun for sidearm (spotted lang sa ilang SWAT or baka porma lang yun).

Barrage ko uli mga officials natin (now that my PC seems to have stabilized its condition). If 1911 kasi and with GMA friendly with China baka pwede naman ma-convince to go for good yet cheap Norincos which from what I know are quite good (1911s lang not other Norinco makes unless pwede sana same quality with their fake SIG P226 at gawing X-Five (yun bang P226 na 1911 controls)). Malabo naman ang P90 due to its expensive ammo (does Singapore make ammo for it as I heard they experimented with developing a gun using a similar ammo).

sus...when it comes to sidearms, the PhilArmy has quite a variety of calibers and brands, ang gulo...some officers / enlisted have .38s, or .357s, others have .45s and 9mms, Beretta, Glock, Sig, NORINCO pa yung iba, even Danao paltik guns are carried by troops.

bottomline is, officers who can afford buy the better pistols.

i think standard pa rin sa army ang .45 acp

why not use 9mm pistols?

i dont know if some of us here have shot someone in the line of duty, but I for one would only trust a 45 cal.

Yup, ok sana ang 9mm lalo na kung Glock 17 or 19 as nice for our Marines and SpecOps. Its because pwede mag-fire underwater with some changes. The problem nga ay yun power ng 9mm to down tangos. Pwede siguro hot rounds pero there are some issues with some Glocks. Nice sana yun Ruger .45s as solid ang built pero ang laki at from what I know that at times of stress hindi ok yun nasa slide ang safety. USP sana pero ang mahal naman. Balik uli sa 1911 series kahit mga NORINCOs sana as ok naman ang gawa at kabisado na ang 1911 dito.

The question na lang ay uniformity. Para sana hindi mahirap sa logistics. Nagtataka lang ako bakit nag M9 rin ang ilan when mahina naman 9mm for our needs.

wika nga nila sir, white american thrash seen from american action movies. Alam mo naman si John Woo puro Berreta ginagamit at si Tommy Lee Jones puro G17 hehehehehe. Saturation drive propaganda worked this time.

mas maami kasi ang capacity kapag 9MM ang bala

but .45s still reliable

Not exactly a sidearm but with a bit more of fine tuning this should make an ideal piece for tankers, drivers, radiomen. Mas ok naman kaysa dun sa weird na KG9 and M16 hybrid - in my opinion.

it feels horrible to shoot someone...but its you or him that'll die

reliable in terms of what?

many 9mm guys would love to hear you expound on this more.

i was shot with a 9mm 3 in the back and 2 on my right arm, i was very fortunate to be alive and lucky that it was only a 9 but it was a .45 it would have been a different story. some of our members here who knows me personaly knows the story and i thank the lord for the protection and blessings that i have bestowed with. i was also shot on the left shin with a 5.56 and again was very lucky that it was just a flesh wound although it only grazed me and did not even know that i was hit (i only found out when my socks and boots were squishing and wet) it took a small part of my shin bone. thank you lord for watching over me. :thumb:

Conventional sidearms usually use the 9 x 19 mm, .45 ACP and similar cartridges that are effective for stopping a hostile individual in ordinary circumstances. However, FN argues that if that individual is wearing a light Kevlar vest, these bullets will be stopped without causing lethal damage. Such body armor is currently in use with over 50% of the world’s armed forces. Law enforcement officers also need the ability to pierce body armor, as it is worn by an increasing number of criminals. FN claims that thanks to the use of their newly designed 5.7 x 28 mm cartridge, the Five-seveN is capable of piercing the older U.S. Army PASGT vest at 300 meters range, and a U.S. Army PASGT helmet at a range of 240 meters. However, these penetration statistics are for the military SS190 cartridge. Other available cartridge variants are not armor-piercing, according to the BATFE. These cartridges are loaded with heavier, expanding projectiles driven at lower velocities.

After penetration, the 5.7 mm round is marketed as being able to effectively incapacitate an enemy, but there has been controversy over these claims. Conventional hollow point bullets rely on expansion to create a large wound channel, but the Five-seveN's ammunition is designed to hit the enemy, travel a few inches, then tumble end over end and continue travelling in this manner without deforming. This means that the wound it creates would be as tall as the length of the projectile (more than 21 mm), supposedly creating a more grievous wound channel, but without the expansion of a hollow point or the fragmentation of a frangible bullet. As a result, FN claims the round—and the Five-seveN—are suitable for military use.

The advantages of the pistol itself include its weight (the 5.7 mm round weighs half as much as a standard 9 mm round), its recoil (FN claims the 5.7 mm round produces roughly half the felt recoil of a 9 mm round), and its 20-round magazine, which holds significantly more ammunition than other pistols. Despite its magazine capacity, the Five-seveN is a light pistol, weighing 1.6 pounds loaded. It is also reasonably compact.

Though an effective weapon, the Five-seveN has not been adopted by everyone, due mostly to the unconventional concept and ammunition. Current users include several international special forces/counter-terrorist groups (including the French GIGN) and a large number of local police department SWAT teams (including some in the United States).

Conventional sidearms usually use the 9 x 19 mm, .45 ACP and similar cartridges that are effective for stopping a hostile individual in ordinary circumstances. However, FN argues that if that individual is wearing a light Kevlar vest, these bullets will be stopped without causing lethal damage. Such body armor is currently in use with over 50% of the world’s armed forces. Law enforcement officers also need the ability to pierce body armor, as it is worn by an increasing number of criminals. FN claims that thanks to the use of their newly designed 5.7 x 28 mm cartridge, the Five-seveN is capable of piercing the older U.S. Army PASGT vest at 300 meters range, and a U.S. Army PASGT helmet at a range of 240 meters. However, these penetration statistics are for the military SS190 cartridge. Other available cartridge variants are not armor-piercing, according to the BATFE. These cartridges are loaded with heavier, expanding projectiles driven at lower velocities.

After penetration, the 5.7 mm round is marketed as being able to effectively incapacitate an enemy, but there has been controversy over these claims. Conventional hollow point bullets rely on expansion to create a large wound channel, but the Five-seveN's ammunition is designed to hit the enemy, travel a few inches, then tumble end over end and continue travelling in this manner without deforming. This means that the wound it creates would be as tall as the length of the projectile (more than 21 mm), supposedly creating a more grievous wound channel, but without the expansion of a hollow point or the fragmentation of a frangible bullet. As a result, FN claims the round—and the Five-seveN—are suitable for military use.

The advantages of the pistol itself include its weight (the 5.7 mm round weighs half as much as a standard 9 mm round), its recoil (FN claims the 5.7 mm round produces roughly half the felt recoil of a 9 mm round), and its 20-round magazine, which holds significantly more ammunition than other pistols. Despite its magazine capacity, the Five-seveN is a light pistol, weighing 1.6 pounds loaded. It is also reasonably compact.

Though an effective weapon, the Five-seveN has not been adopted by everyone, due mostly to the unconventional concept and ammunition. Current users include several international special forces/counter-terrorist groups (including the French GIGN) and a large number of local police department SWAT teams (including some in the United States).

kapag 1911 kasi ang capacity lang e 7+1

Ang maganda e yung Five seveN

isn't Five Seven sleek?

:pistols: This is the deadliest gun in the universe THE DESERT EAGLE

http://www.enemyforces.com/firearms/deserteagle.jpg

Caliber 9 mm 11.1 mm 12.7 mm
Cartridge type .357 Magnum .44 Magnum .50 Action Express
Dimensions and weight
Total weight (with loaded magazine) 1 766 g 1 897 g 2 050 g
Total weight (with empty magazine) 1 466 g ? 1 760 g
Overall length (with 152 mm barrel) 269 mm
Overall length (with 254 mm barrel) 375 mm
Fire characteristics
Bullets initial speed 435 m/s 448 m/s 395 m/s
Muzzle energy 968 Joules 1 560 Joules 2 025 Joules
Practical rate of fire 20 - 30 rpm
Magazine capacity 9 rounds 8 rounds 7 rounds
Sighting range (with adjustable sight) 200 m
Range of effective fire 200 m and more

:scared: I dont want to get shot by this gun "SURE DEATH"

Weight 1.36 kg / 3 lbs (47.8 oz) (.357 Mark I/VII aluminum frame)
1.65 kg / 3.63 lbs (58.3 oz) (steel frame)
2 kg / 4.4 lbs (70 oz) (Mark XIX .50 AE)

Length 260 mm (10.25 in) with 6 in barrel
Barrel length 6 in (152 mm), 10 in (254 mm) and 14 in (356 mm)
Manufacturer IMI or Saco Defense, under contract to Magnum Research
The Desert Eagle is a large caliber gas-operated semi-automatic pistol manufactured in Israel by IMI (Israel Military Industries) for Magnum Research, Inc.

Magnum Research, based in the USA, developed and patented the original Desert Eagle design and this design was further refined by IMI. Manufacturing was moved to Saco Defense in the state of Maine from 1995 to 2000, but shifted back to Israel when Saco was acquired by General Dynamics.

Due to (and in no small measure contributing to) its reputation as a powerful firearm, the Desert Eagle has made frequent appearances as the weapon of choice in the action-adventure genres of books, movies, songs, TV shows, and video games.

The Desert Eagle, despite its reputation, is not used in tactical combat by professionals due to its large size, overpowered ammunition and loud sound, especially when fired indoors. Unaccustomed users often develop a fear of the Desert Eagle and other magnum calibre pistols. Because of the weapon's reputation, users may unwittingly flinch before the shot, which will reduce accuracy and is known as 'Magnum flinch'

Tama ka tol naisip ko din na hindi bagay sa Pinoy sa Deasert Eagle dahil sa laki at recoil so i suggest ko yung Five-seveN

http://www.enemyforces.com/firearms/fiveseven.jpg

Caliber 5.7 mm
Cartridge 5.7 x 28 (SS190)
Dimensions and weight
Total weight (with loaded magazine) 744 g
Total weight (with empty magazine) 618 g
Overall length 208 mm
Barrel length 122 mm
Fire characteristics
Bullet initial speed 700 m/s
Practical rate of fire 40 rpm
Magazine capacity 20 rounds
Range of effective fire 100 m

Tingin ko tatagos to sa Bullet proof Vest
Fire Power
Accuracy
Magazine capacity the Five Seven has it all san kapa

There has been some controversy over claims that the Five-SeveN is a "cop-killer" gun. The debate rests on the armor piercing capabilities of the military and law enforcement version (SS190) of the 5.7 x 28 mm. This type of ammunition however, is not available to the public and does not provide any greater danger or armor piercing capability than many much more powerful, unrestricted and commonly available rifle cartridges not even designed specifically for armor piercing. The civilian SS196 and SS197 ammunition uses standard lead core jacketed bullets, but does retain the much higher muzzle velocity of SS190.

The misconception stems from the fact that certain rounds of 5.7 x 28 mm ammunition are designed for optimal armor piercing effect. This does not mean however, that all types 5.7 x 28 mm ammunition have special or abnormal armor piercing capability and in fact even the armor piercing 5.7 x 28 mm cartridge has less armor piercing effect than standard 5.56 x 45 mm NATO ball ammunition.


----Variants----

Five-seveN
The original Five-seveN, now discontinued. It has a double action (DA) trigger and no safety. This makes shooting slower and less accurate than with the newer single action variants of the Five-seveN. It features a shaped trigger guard, designed to facilitate gloved use.


Five-seveN Tactical
This model is identical to the original version, with the exception of the single action (SA) trigger and a safety device. The Five-seveN Tactical is also increasingly hard to find.


Five-seveN IOM
The IOM model (for Individual Officer's Model) was the first publicly available variant, debuting commercially in 2004. The IOM is similar in its basic design to the original versions, but differs in that it has a different accessory rail, lined trigger guard outside edge, and adjustable sights. It also incorporates a magazine disconnect—this safety mechanism prevents the weapon from being fired without the magazine inserted.


Five-seveN USG
The most recent version of the Five-seveN, the USG. (United States Government) variant debuted in 2005 and replaced the IOM. The USG keeps the differences incorporated in the IOM, such as the magazine disconnect and adjustable sights, but has further modifications, including: conventionally-shaped (square) trigger guard, checkered grip pattern, and a larger, reversible magazine release.


----Accessories----
All models of the Five-seveN can also be mounted with a laser aiming module (LAM) or a tactical flashlight on the accessory rail. There are various companies that make these devices for various firearms.

A threaded barrel is available for mounting a suppressor. Again, various manufacturers provide their models and variations of suppressors.

FN produces night sights for the DAO and Tactical models. These sights do not fit the IOM and USG models without gunsmithing. Trijicon is slated to produce tritium night sights for the IOM and USG models, but they are not available yet. There are also other companies that produce sights for various pistols that may or may not require gunsmithing.

As with all pistols, holster options are limited only to the choice that the individual or department makes. There are myriads of options one can make when deciding on a holster for their sidearm.

A magazine extension for the Five-seveN is available that will extend 1.75 inches below the weapon. It allows the Five-seveN to hold ten extra rounds, for a total of thirty.

ang price range ng Five seveN e $1045

Siguro kung may Full Automatic Sumpak siguro pwede din Full Automatic PenGun
murapa Electrical tape lang at 6-10 inch na tubo and 45. ammo for testing mura diba 15O-200PHP lang ang magagastos mura diba kumpara sa E$1045 mahal 200 pesos lang ang laking mura no

http://www.epinions.com/images/opti/66/0c/...-resized200.jpg

http://img.alibaba.com/photo/51319324/Elec..._Metal_Tube.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/1665/PENGUN.JPG

imbento na tayo kayang kaya natin gumawa niyan dun sa tondo uso yan kahit ngaun kayangkaya natin gumawa nyan

But we must remember that sidearms are primarily defensive weapons and one is not expected to assault a heavily fortified fortification with only a .45 caliber pistol.

IMHO, a M-1911 pistol is suitable enough as a sidearm.

Is the five seven the one in counter strike 1 5 right because it look like it ???

Its 1 6 sir, 15 is double beretta

The Desert Eagle, despite its reputation, is not used in tactical combat by professionals due to its large size, overpowered ammunition and loud sound, especially when fired indoors. Unaccustomed users often develop a fear of the Desert Eagle and other magnum calibre pistols. Because of the weapon's reputation, users may unwittingly flinch before the shot, which will reduce accuracy and is known as 'Magnum flinch'

E di wag natin panakaw at tsaka dinaman Police ang pinaguusapan Sundalo e

"cop-killer" gun totoo yun na kayang butasin ng 5.7 mm round ang BPV dahil pointed to at hindi Parabellum ang kaya lang iresist ng BPV na bala ay yung mga Parabellum rounds :thumb:

its not proven durable at holdappers lang ang gumagamit nun,mate

Kasi sa trabaho hindi lahat ng oras ay kailangan patayin ang kalaban minsan kasi lumalabanpero di dapat patayin pano ko ang misyon ay makuha ang suspect ng buhay siyempre kung lumalaban babarilin at .45 ang gamit mo 90% ng binaril ng .45 ay todas pero kung 9mm ang gamit mo mabubuhay yung suspect. Pero sa military Five Seven is the best gun

E walang pondo e di sumpak nalang o pengun...........

its not durable

I think that's the 1-7 or 1-6 in counterstrike. Its quite a beautiful looking piece of equipment. Love at first sight i must say! :specool:

I fell in love first sight with that pistol

Nakabaril na ko In line of duty at katunayan may asunto panga ako hangang ngaun Kasi hindi makuha sa warning shot at nagtangka pang lumaban kaya yun baril ko sa katunayan 2 na ang nababaril ko yung isa nag 50-50 4 na bala ang isinuksok ko sa katawan ng gagong yun pero nabuhay parin at inasunto pako.1 year later mayhinahabol ako na snacher e napagod nako kakahabol kaya binaril ko sa hita 2 bala lang ang pinasok ko sa hita niya pero hangang ngaun hindi parin nakakalakad nadapa ang sama ng bagsak .Sa kasamaang palad wala akong napatay sa kanilang dalawa...sayang ang pagkakataon na makapatay.... Pero kung .45 o Five Seven ang gamit ko hindi na sisikatan ng araw yung dalawang inutil :pistols: ....Kaw Lorenz Mallari ilan na napatay ng 9mm para masabi mo na hindi durable ang Five seven di mo pa siguro natetest ang 9mm sa engkwentro kasi kung natest mo na aayawan mo ang lahat ng klase ng 9mm na baril dahil sobrang hina talaga tol nakakatakot makipag barilang kung 9mm ang gamit mo aabot ng 7-9 na bala para lang makapatay ng isang tao hindi ang 9mm ang ideal side arm para sa PA mas magtitiwala parin ako sa .45 kesa 9mm....Base on my Experience...

Careful there Judiel28. Please bear in mind the responsibilities of having a firearm. not all snatchers deserve to be shot nor killed. From what i've heard, it takes a .45 to put down big western guys. Pero pag pinoy, a 9mm should be enough, :fire:

Yung iba nan lalaban at naglalabas ng 29 yung iba nga .38 kaya no choice kundi barilin kesa maunahan pako e di ilalabas palang babarilin ko na kesa ako ang mapatay e di sila na lang diba sayang ang future ko kung masisira lang dahil sa kanila sayang e kung sila walang bilang sa mundong ibabaw kung baga mga basura lang sila.Mas maganda kung .45 dahil one shot one kill mas malakas masmabilis walang hirap :thumb: para di na sila maghirap isang sakit nalang...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Springfield Armory XD .45 GAP Pistol (HS 2000)
Type: Pistol
==Place of origin==
Croatia
==Service history==
In service 1999 to present
Used by Croatian Armed Forces
Production history
Designer Marko Vukovic
Manufacturer HS Produkt
Produced 1999 (Croatia)
2002 (North America)
Variants See table
==Specifications==
Cartridge 9x19 mm, .357 SIG, .40 S&W, .45 GAP, .45 ACP
Action Recoil

Those who've actually shot AT another human being are usually
loathe to discuss it, let alone an occasion of actually hitting someone.



That out of the way...
I have fired the FN Five-seveN , albeit with training rounds.
Very controllable, despite having a light(er) weight poly frame.
Then again the rounds are so (*^*&%^$( light and small. The size
of the bullet does not inspire confidence, especially if the opponent
ISN'T wearing armor. With armor to defeat, at least you get
better odds of fragmentation for multiple wound channels.
IIRC the local distributor was Espinelli, and the asking
was over 60,000. If it's a bulk order, maybe the price can come
down to 29,000 per.

The Springfield Armory XD is a Croatian design (HS2000), and the
trigger is only marginally less horribly "sproingy" than a Glock's.
(Sorry glockaholics...JMO) It costs upwards of 40,000 retail, depending
on model, sourced from distributor Stronghand. In bulk, maybe 25,000

An all-forged local-built M1911 pattern pistol, if Armscor ever ventures
fully away from investment casting, in GI format (singlestack), should
cost about 25,000 retail.

The main problem with local 1911's is not that they don't work,
but that they don't hold up to long use: even with user and Armory TLC
(which the PA is not known for, nor should be expected to provide)
you get severe failures around the 25,000 mark: worn disconnector,
broken extractor claw, broken barrel links. Better steel for the internals:
true-forged, hindi fundido, is the answer. Armscor recently started using
milled, extruded billet 4140 for its (RIA-label, subcon from TwinPines) slides,
and these are superior to investment cast. If there is real incentive by
way of a volume bid out, I'm sure they would consider milling parts from
forged steel. SRDP dapat, di ba?

Try naman to remember the screw job that Pietro Beretta SpA committed
against the PNP and the Filipino taxpayer last decade, to temper any
thoughts of buying foreign.



As for caliber.... I have to side with Fish:
Plugging a fleeing, unarmed person :nono:
is several orders of difficulty below the task of making a last stand with a sidearm
in combat. One shot, one stop dapat, and the .45 ACP/M1911A1 platform has an
encouraging track record.

Against unarmored targets, since you're limited to FMJ rounds, the
broader and heavier the bullet, the more noticeable the impact is to the
opponent (in spite of an adrenal rush), the bigger the hole made, and
the faster the opponent exsanguinates to incapacitation.


:armytwisted:
h

^ that judiel & lorenz, is authority speaking.

mr. h is the guy wnen it comes to pistols, and many other types of firearms I beleive.

:bow:

Just wondering...

:dunno: