Do you believe in these accusations as posted here?

http://www.sundalo.bravehost.com/

some are true, some are probably not.

Related story:

Raps vs Esperon on pro-rebel soldier site ‘rehashed’--AFP

INQUIRER.net
First Posted 17:13:00 05/01/2008


MANILA, Philippines -- The military dismissed as "rehashed" a statement posted on a pro-rebel soldier website linking Armed Forces chief of staff General Hermogenes Esperon Jr. and several other active and retired officers to alleged vote-rigging operations in 2004.

The statement, entitled "Sins of the Cavaliers," posted on http://www.sundalo.bravehost.com, detailed the alleged role of Esperon and the other officers in the supposed electoral fraud, as described in purported wiretapped phone conversations between President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo and former elections commissioner Virgilio Garcillano.

Graduates of the Philippine Military Academy (PMA) are called cavaliers. As such, they are expected to follow an honor code instilled in them as cadets that prevents them from cheating, stealing, and lying and condoning others who do so.

Asked who could be behind the statement, Bacarro said, "It can be anybody, but one thing is definite, they want it out, they [must] have underlying interest [s]."

"These are rehashed issues that are coming out," the spokesman said. "The burden of proving those allegations would fall on their shoulders."

Bacarro said Esperon has repeatedly said he would clear his name over the so-called "Hello Garci" controversy after he retires.

Esperon will retire on May 9, when his three-month term extension expires.

The military chief is one of four officers mentioned in the "Hello Garci" wiretaps. He and the three other officers were cleared by a military fact-finding board, but its report has never been released in full.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/...e-rehashed--AFP

Check out the new posting on the sundalo website Pardoning Mister Esperon(http://www.sundalo.bravehost.com/). The detainees are willing to consider pardoning Esperon. The tone is serious but its actually hilarious.

Can anyone hear the tables turning?

yeah, its a funny article indeed : :armysmile:

Pardoning Mister Esperon

We might consider pardoning Mister Esperon for the crime he committed in the 2004 elections as long as he shows remorse and is willing to face the criminal and military justice system. Like the Magdalo Nine, whom he made as an example, Esperon should walk the talk and ask forgiveness from the Filipino people and the members of the Armed Forces of the Philppines (AFP) for prostituting the organization. Only then would we consider giving him pardon for the sins he has committed..

While Esperon does his darndest best to evade the system…we likewise, do our darndest best to face it. We are more than willing to go through the trial and subject ourselves to the military system, if only to show that we do not want the system to be further eroded by vested interests and capricious manipulations. Ours is to prevent illegal precedents that would bear on future generations. While it is true that we are bearing the brunt of the military justice system, we likewise are comforted by the thought that we could fight against its prostitution. That would be our legacy. And we hope that the same thought is shared by the people involved in the process.

As Officers and Gentlemen, we are more than lenient and reconciliatory to our erring brothers in arms, especially Mister Esperon, provided they show sincere remorse, humbled themselves and face justice for the offenses they have committed.

Pardon comes after justice is served.

http://www.sundalo.bravehost.com/

Maybe one would agree for Mr. Esperon to be pardoned only after he'll experience the luxury of the four corners of cemented walls of a prison cell.

Has anyone noticed that Esperon never categorically denies Hello Garci? He says the charges are rehashed or that he has been cleared. But he NEVER says I did NOT do that.

He just sang the same tune to that of his boss in Malacañang.

He got the notion that if everyone else could get away from that "hello garci" election saga, why can't he.

Well, if you look at it this way, many of his "enemies" are behind bars, his term was extended, he is running around free and most likely will get some posting that will bring in more graft... er, money. Seems to me, he has already gotten away with it. Garci who?

I have a strange feeling that both of you don't like Esperon very much. :armysmile:

You think? :armywink:

We've got nothing to do or against his personal stature. Only that nobody should like him for what he was doing during his stint as a public official citing the nature of his job to be apolitical.

What spellspinner said was a very simple and accurate probabilities that Mr.Esperon will be rewarded with juicy position after retirement for what he had contributed to the political ends of his former boss who runs the regime.

Fact remains is that Esperon has never been held to account for Garci, which I believe is the original sin in this administration. He seems to be so hell-bent in holding other people accountable for their sins -- real or imagined -- and yet he dodges his own judgment. There is only one word for that, its called cowardice.

But its nothing personal. As an officer of the court, I hate to see people who abuse the system, subjecting people to un-due process so unecessarily. Cpt. Ruben Guinolbay said at the last hearing that he and his co-accused had been unjustly detained for two years at the whim of this person acting through his Staff Judge Advocate Col. Pete Davila. Esperon himself has not seen the inside of jail cell for his role in the 2004 elections.

more voted "not sure" than "yes", could this mean that the the voters find the accusations vague, or the credibility of the accusers is also questionable?

Haven't seen any comments on the accusers yet. If vagueness were to be a factor, then the question should be rephrased. In fact, I would have preferred that the accusations be enumerated and discussions be made on each of them specifically. That way, the results would be more relevant.

Those who voted "not sure" were those who were inclined to yes but won't definitely vote for no.

Maybe the accusers also have a credibility problem, more now voted "not sure".

:armyskeptic:

Accusations can only be proven in a legal forum or court of law depending on the credibility of the judicial institution. However, there are accusations by accusers that were not brought before the bar of justice due to some varied reasons like the ones in this topic. These are accusations that have visual facts that is widely and popularly seen and felt. This is why the "not sure" votes overwhelmed the "yes" votes which is understandably yes at the back of the head.

Besides the groups of "accusers" include columnists, editorial writers, soldiers, officers, laymen... Too diverse to make a judgment on their credibility/ies.

Please include lawyers among groups with credibility issues.

A study found that most people are of the opinion that lawyers are the most untrustworthy, many percive them to be LIARS and DISHONEST and charge EXORBITANT fees. :headbang:

and about the poll, I voted NO, because the accusers have been proven guilty and was just granted pardon, therefore they are EXCONVICTS with credibility issues, just like LAWYERS... :banana:

Gee thanks very much for that vote of confidence for lawyers and sweeping generalization. :nono: However, I would very much like to see that study. Perhaps you could include a link?

Personal issues aside, you were thus, misinformed. The nine Magdalo who were pardoned pleaded guilty in the Regional Trial Court for an offense that has yet to be proven. The elements of coup d'etat were not fully proven by the prosecution. They pleaded guilty in order to expedite their pardon. If the charge were "conspiracy to commit coup d'etat" that might have been a different story.

However, even assuming that the guilty verdicts were reasonable, your explanantion misses certain facts:

First, there are several accusers against Esperon and the Cavaliers involved in the 2004 election scandal, not just soldiers and officers who constitute the Magdalo group, but as I mentioned, laymen, media personnel etc, and as YOU mentioned, lawyers. The guilty verdict on the 9 therefore does not prove in/credibility of the other accusers.

Second, assuming that we are limiting the discussion to the credibility of those who published the accusation, we will assume that they are those who are currently detained. However, there are two groups of detainees. The 9 Magdalo officers are only part of one group. There is also another group of officers who are detained in connection with the 2006 Marine stand-off incident. The conviction of the 9 does not affect the others.

Third, credibility of accusers has nothing to do with the accusations against these Cavaliers. These accusations were there even before the second group of officers were detained, and in fact it is precisely the scandal that erupted over election cheating that has led to widespread dissatisfaction and instability.

Maybe you voted "no" because you don't like lawyers, that certainly seems to be the gist of your post, but I fail to see the connection. Happy posting.

Typical lawyerspeak, lots of flowery words but less substance, just giving us mere mortals the runaround, but its understandable, you're just speaking for your clients.

about that study of lawyers being the most untrustworthy professionals, i read it in the late Max soliven's column in the Philippine Star newspaper.

Typical non-sequitur, can't even prove what is insubstantial or what is substantial.

Yeah, yeah, dead men tell no tales.

I think I remember reading that particular column but it was not a survey, just Mr. Soliven's rant about dishonest lawyers.