Took this pic of a PN transport ship – hull number I purposely blacked out - yesterday while I was waiting to board a fast ferry in a city in the Visayas.

I struck up a conversation with the newly-minted lieutenant in charge of the guard detail and asked his permission to take photos. Understandably, he only allowed this bow shot since the topdeck was crammed of APCs, trucks, humvees, howitzers and other equipment.

I told him that I’m a military enthusiast and is a member of PDFF. He said he and his fellow officers browse the site too but do not participate. He’s supportive of the discussions in this forum since its having an impact on the senior officers, he said without elaborating.

He divulged that the ship is on its way to a hotspot in Mindanao with his Army unit on board (I saw the unit patch but he requested me not to ID his unit if in case I’m going to post our conversation on the Net) but had to make this unscheduled port call due to mechanical problems.

Here are his comments of the voyage, his first on board a Navy ship:

1. The age and the state of the ship made most of the soldiers nervous, joking that their chances of dying while onboard the ship are greater than dying in a gun battle with the enemy.
2. The ship is so slow fishermen furiously paddling outrigger boats easily overtook it. I think he was only half-joking when he said this.
3. The ship is unescorted by a PN gunboat or patrol craft considering the number of soldiers and equipment on board, he said most of the officers could not help thinking of possible suicide attacks similar to what happened to the Sri Lankan Navy transports and the USS Cole attack.
4. When I noted to him that although a platoon of soldiers was securing the dockside, not even a single zodiac-mounted security was patrolling the sea perimeter of the ship, he just shrugged and said the area has no known terrorist presence.
5. I asked him about the accommodations on board, he replied with a wry smile “uncomfortable”.
6. He once also liked the Navy to have new frigates and corvettes but based on his experience, he now wants the acquisition of new transport ships first and enough patrol craft as escorts. New transport ship mean faster, safer and more efficient deployment and transport of troops and equipment from Manila to hotspots in the Visayas and Mindanao.

Nice info!

It's good to know the young officer shares our disposition and why we are talking here.

It's the very reason why we do this.

It's simply to defeat evil gripping the military and protect those who are risking life and limb, the men below, despite the shortcomings of the decision-makers in the military and the civilian government.

Add to that the breed of greed on top who are making the lives of the frontliners more miserable.

Going back to the subject, I agree that the mobilization should be improved as well. The security of those ships should not come as a question anymore. At least one or two FAC would be enough.

sir patriot, I think you are just too cautious, the unit itself posted their send-off ceremony pics on July 9, 2008 here:

http://cmoladiv.multiply.com/photos/album/...CIO_TO_MINDANAO

and this is the news article about the deployment:

If the ship departed on July 9 with those APCs on board and three days later on July 12, if you took the pic yesterday - the unit is still stranded in a port in the visayas due to mechanical troubles, shucks, I can understand the frustration of that young army officer... their pride and joy, the APCs and armor on the way to Mindanao onboard an old and slow LST :headbang: baka tapos ta na ang giyera pagdating nila sa Mindanao..

ang Besson-class na lang sana ang sinakyan nila baka hindi pa nagkaaberiya

... and with the these posts, the enemy must be planning on how they can attack the ship now.

Moro rebs and JI are also reading this forum.

Navy, you know what to do.

sheet...oo nga no, dapat padala kaagad sila ng escorts ASAP!

complacency doesnt pay :headbang:

hayyy...ang LAD pinasakay sa sira-sirang barko

Mods, Please delete this post or at least block off the photo (for now). LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS. Maybe you can restore it after a week or two.

I beg to disagree mr 40niner, its not LOOSE LIPS THAT SINK SHIPS, you know yourself what sink ships - its ----- and incompetent GENERALS, ADMIRALS and DEFENSE OFFICIALS who send a decrepit, ill-maintained transport ship with soldiers and equipment onboard without escorts.

Even without the internet, enemy assets could easily spot the ship leave its homeport to sail at a very sedate 7knots and wait until the engine conks out. They don't even have to bomb this ship, it will probably sink by itself if all the people on board hiccup at the same time.

Heck, Patriot is even more prudent in his post than the guys at the LAD at its Multiply site who posted dozens of pictures for all to see. In contrast, Patriot blacked out the hull number, never mentioned the exact port in the visayas nor the unit on board.

Why should we block the pics when a lot of lapses could clearly be seen, just to cover up the faults and deny the public the real situation of how the navy transports our troops?

Don't you think it should have been the senior command that exercised prudence even before the soldiers and vehicles were loaded on board that LST? They even had a great photo op during the send off ceremony, a nice propaganda effort to make the enemy shake in their boots and slippers, supposedly.

OPSEC violations my ass, how could the posting of this telling pic and the comments of the obviously frustrated young officer overcome the years of negligence and complacency that conspired for this ship to unexpectedly dock at a commercial port for emergency repairs. Do they really have to wait that the NPA and the islamic terrorrists develop a similar rudimentary but deadly naval warfare unit similar to Sri Lanka's Tamil Tiger rebels?

If that ship sinks, the blood will not be in our hands. We all know where to point our fingers!

Thanks to patriot for posting the picture. The PN has only 2 kinds of large amphib transports, the Besson class and the old ex-world was 2 LSTs.

Since news reports mention 24 armored vehicles to be transported and subsequently corroborated on the LAD site that the 1st MIB will go, we can deduce that the ex-world war 2 LSTs was used and not the Besson. Why?

the old LST has more cargo volume than the Besson class because the Besson class has only 1 cargo deck(obvious from photos) while the old LST has an upper and lower deck.

The upper deck of the old LST can carry soldiers and light vehicles while the lower deck carries the heavier armor.

Thus, the old LST was likely candidate to carry the mechanized batallion which we now know to be true from the photo of patriot. there is no OPSEC needed there .

the important thing is to secure the port area where the LST is docked which the PN accomplishes by barricading the area where the ship is docked with container vans.. in fact you can see a container van in the photo which could be a barricade or could be unloading additional supplies for the LST. When US navy ships dock in the philippines the area is barricaded with container vans as a buffer against suicide attacks

the only OPSEC thing was not to mention 'visayan' port but rather just port if you want to be anal about it but even that it nothing since patriot can just be saying visayan port just to mislead when in reality the ship is still in sangley, batangas or who knows where =)

one thing to add to is that the LAD website mentions that the LST BRP Benguet # 507 was used to carry the MIB so there was really no need to erase the hull #.

what is nice in patriot's post is the mention that the army officers realize the need to get better amphib ships which will help the PN get support from the army for their plan to get the MPV transport ship.

Let's hope their made it to their destination :salute:

to my filipino halfbrothers its the hightime that you buy our Endeavour class transport ships, its not good to use very old ships for transport of soldiers, and tanks it might sink in even minor typhoons :armyeek: and about the escort its really important, when singapore sent the endeavour to assist tsunami victims in indonesia which is not a battle zone it was still escorted by our missile ships.

now tht philippines is infested with jemayah islamiah and abu sayyaff but your navy sends unarmed tranport ships without escorts, now that is very brave or very foolish decision.

everyone is so concerned about OPSEC re the posting of the above pic by sir patriot but what about what I call ACSEC - actual security?, the lack of it which is clearly evident.

This is an eye-opener and lessons are learned, corrections to be made. I don't have to elaborate but that LT who talked to patriot should not be pilloried for violations of OPSEC rules, he's but a young idealistic officer on his first voyage onboard a navy ship who just expressed his valid concerns.

Who should be pilloried are the people responsible for the various lapses in ACSEC relative to this deployment.

I have not seen the multiply site prior to posting my pic.

Yes, that container van was a barricade alongside the No Entry sign. Beyond that is a tent where some of the soldiers were posted. I think there was ample security dockside.

That's what I thought of him. He was spare with his words, soft-spoken, not the the blabbermouth humbug type of young officer. I think he was just voicing out real concerns per his experience. He did not instruct me to post his comments but I just felt he wanted it be known through me.

C'mon SL, the whole Philippines aren't really "infested" with JI and Abu. Even you guys have their elements operating within your city fortress.

AFSEC huh, that's a new one.

The more appropriate term is FORCE SECURITY and the lack of it in the PN is nothing new, LSTs regularly go on unescorted voyages. The MILF, MNLF, NPA, JI, ASG, Al Qaeda, etc know this fact and any one of these bad guys has yet to sink a single PN ship.

Trust our military, they know what they are doing. If they send a ship unescorted then they're absolutely sure that the route is safe and secure.



:devilwink:

no need.

more sources have displayed the ship in a much much more detailed manner.

anyway, the photo is not enough to help the attackers plan completely. the thorough area information and overall security plan are what should be kept secured.

btw, we arent loose lips. we understand the dangers.

complacency on the part of the military is what will put them in danger.

nonetheless, thanks for reminding us all on the loose lips. the more we will be more picky.

What are you talking about

there's noinsurgency in singapore :armyeek:

even without patrol oats around the ship, i see two machine guns (covered?) near the bow can this be operated imediately if there are enemies around?

it has been used for money laundering and transhipment point for stuff headed to mindanao, malaysia and indonesia. few years back, several people connected with ji were caught video taping american sailors boarding the train. they may not be the arms carrying type, but, they are there.

vermonter - its been a while, doing covert stuff or something?

Hey Eagle 1,

After I was instructed by my commander to stay away from foreign defense forums after the incident when I said some mean words, then 9-11 hit. Been all over the place ever since.
Bumping into AFP Officers and NCOs we train here stateside. A majority of Flip soldiers they send here for training are very idealistic, dedicated and loyal to the Philippines, no matter how financially rewarding it wold be for them to stay in the USA. We had a Phil Army captain offered a chance to switch to the US Army. He turned it down, because he explained that the RP spent a lot of money to send him to Ft Sill. A Phil Marine SGT had a chance to TNT, but said it would taint the Phil Marines' image. You guys would be proud. Out of the hundreds that come here, there are only a couple of rotten apples I know of. AFP personnel are taken care of the most compared to their foreign counterparts on US military bases, just like seeing another Guard guy.
Currently on flying status, the refurbishing Hueys out at Ozark is just outside the gate, and are awesome. Not state of the art, but reliable and cool to look at. No problems with finding spares. I don't care what anyone says, I'd rather fly the Huey than the 60 I'm in now.
Glad to see you and the others still blogging. Take care!


SL,

They don't have to be armed with guns or blades to operate in one's country. A couple of months ago Selamat Kastari escaped a Singapore prisoners with help from JI and their supporters. Singapore prisons are known to more secured than Fort Leavenworth. I couldn't believe it was possible. I'm glad that Singapore and Indonesian along with Filipino and Thai authorities are pro-active in hunting down these hate mongers.

It's great that you ended up here. :thumb:

Thanks Flipzi. I'm really impressed with the forum you guys created. :patrioticpinoy:

We appreciate that a lot.
:armysmile:

The Philippine military can also contract commercial firms for sea transport like we do here in the US...... unless there are secret Philippine military vehicles and equipment on that LST that the rest of the world do not know of? :armyeek:

The PN already does this when there are not enough PN transports to go around...

:fire: BRP Kalinga Apayao

Name: BRP Kalinga Apayao (LT-516)
Acquired: 1973
Fate: Active in service as of 2009[update]
General characteristics
Class and type: LST-542-class tank landing ship
Displacement: 1,625 long tons (1,651 t) light
4,080 long tons (4,145 t) full
Length: 328 ft (100 m)
Beam: 50 ft (15 m)
Draft: Unloaded :
2 ft 4 in (0.71 m) forward
7 ft 6 in (2.3 m) aft
Loaded :
8 ft 2 in (2.5 m) forward
14 ft 1 in (4.3 m) aft
Propulsion: 2 × General Motors 12-567 diesel engines, two shafts, twin rudders
Speed: 12 knots (22 km/h; 14 mph)
Boats and landing
craft carried: 2 LCVPs
Troops: 16 officers, 147 enlisted men
Complement: 7 officers, 104 enlisted men
Armament: • 1 × single 3"/50 caliber gun mount
• 8 × 40 mm guns
• 12 × 20 mm guns

USS Bagaduce (AT-21/ATO-21) was the lead ship of her class of fleet tugs for the United States Navy. She was the first ship of the U.S. Navy of that name, and is named for the Bagaduce River and a peninsula in Hancock County, Maine.

Bagaduce (Tug No. 21) was laid down on 16 July 1918 at Buffalo, New York, by the Ferguson Steel and Iron Company; briefly named Ammonoosuc in February 1919; renamed Bagaduce on 24 February 1919; launched 5 April 1919; and commissioned at Buffalo on 18 September 1919, Lt.(jg.) Frank Mogridge in command.

:fire: ATO-21