View Full Version: Replacement for N22 Nomad

Philippines Defense Forces Forum > Philippine Air Force > Replacement for N22 Nomad


Title: Replacement for N22 Nomad


possible - April 22, 2005 05:23 AM (GMT)
QUOTE
The PAF has been sorely lacking in small tactical airlifters with no aircraft currently filling the gap between the Hueys and F-27s and/or C-130s.  In the past the PAF had relied on Nomads and Islanders to provide logistical support to small far flung outposts.  The small number of Nomads flying is therefore very much overworked with the slack being taken up by the equally overworked Huey fleet.

http://home.comcast.net/~manokski/nomad.htm

the C-212 and the CN-235 come to mind. tirad's AC-47T is an intriguing rebuild. any other candidates, new, second-hand, rebuilt?

user posted image

PZL Mielec M28 Skytruck/Bryza

Pratt & Whitney PT6 engines, maritime surveillance version in service, big in Venezuela

user posted image

Sukhoi Su-80

General Electric CT7s, rear loading ramp, 10-hour loiter?

datu - April 22, 2005 07:19 AM (GMT)
The PAF in the past has requested C-26 aircraft from the US. C-26 in 3 versions operate in Air and Army National Guard. Turboprop aircraft, one version can accomodate as much as 19-22 passengers or equal amount of cargo, seats can be taken out in an all-cargo version. Also serve as surveilance plane, can be equipped with FLIR, Thermal Imaging and other suveillance equipment. Some US versions used to patrol US-Mexico border at night. Colombian version has APG-66 radar, other infrared imaging systems and other equpment. Dunno if it can take on STOL mission of NOMAD, but the civilian version was meant to be used in small airfields. Anybody know? Has a 2,000+ nautical mile range on max fuel.

US gave financed the transfer and re-equipment of some 13 C-26 aircraft for Anti-Drug surveillance to Colombia, Peru, Venezuela, Barbados, and Trinidad and Tobago-all got 2 except Peru which got 3-. Purchases with US via FMS/EDA-type deals are a plus...?


user posted image

AN-140-Antonov-made in response to light/medium transport, max 6,000kilogram payload, 46-52 passengers, 1,134nautical mile range, . Interesting to note, the foreign export version is planned to be equipped with a Pratt and Whitney PW-127A engine. License manufactured in Iran dubbed "Iran-140", to be used for Light transport as well as armed/unarmed MPA version, as well as early warning command and control, as much as 100 to be built in iran for military and domentic duties. Maybe too big for PAF service since it is intended to replace Fokker27 in Iranian service.
user posted image


user posted image

G.222 would be good, but it is just old and others are replacing it already.
user posted image

Numbers - April 23, 2005 05:29 AM (GMT)
How about the EADS CASA C-295 medium transport aircraft which can operate as MPA as well.

Portugal just ordered 12 C-295s for 280 million euros to replace their existing fleet of 24 C-212s.

And speaking of soon to be retired Portuguese Air Force C-212s, if there's a way we can acquire those, then why not?

adroth - April 23, 2005 10:42 PM (GMT)
One criteria that I'd set for choosing a Nomad replacement would be availability of maintenance expertise. That should reduce training costs.

We currently have former Philippine Airlines Fokker F27 that are just lying on the tarmac. Scraping funds to make those birds air worthy would be very worthwhile.

user posted image

Airline mechanics with Asian Spirit (some of whom could be members of the PAF reserve) also have experience maintaining the Indonesian-made CN235.

user posted image

Unless the manufacturer is no longer able to provide spares for this type, this would be an interesting choice.

user posted image

datu - April 25, 2005 12:58 AM (GMT)
This would be ideal for STOL and crude airstrips, but like the G.222 old and being replaced already.

Buffalo-Max Payload 41,000 pounds. With 41 troops onboard, can land within 1,050 feet and takeoff within 1,225 feet.

user posted image

BN-Islander/new versions-Already a PAF and PN veteran. Now comes in new versions. BN2T turboprop or turbine engined, can do cargo work or surveillance duties. STOL capability can operate in only 350meter runway, some7,000 pound max cargo 837feet takeoff, 747feet landing. Version below houses a suface search radar, and external tanks?
user posted image

user posted image
British Army BN2Tbelow
user posted image



BN2T-4S Defender-dubbed Defender4000--stretched version of the islander/defender can be cargo work but also known as surveilance aircraft.
Manchester Police "Defender4000- notive the FLIR ball?
user posted image
user posted image
user posted image
picture above is thought of housing an APG-66 radar. 1,006 nautical mile, 8hour endurance on internal fuel. Can be armed with 4 hardpoints.

[Quote]This guide is intended as a broad indication of operating costs and is based on a Defender 4000 with 400HP Allison Turboprops.Your own fuel and labour costs should be used to arrive at an accurate local cost. Figures are based on an average aircraft utilisation of between 900 and 1000 hours per year. All costs are in US Dollars (USD).
Operating costs from Britten-Norman site:
Maintenance labour rate US$ 40.00
Maintenance man hours / flying hour 0.90
Exchange rate (where applicable) GBP1.00 = USD1.50

Direct Operating Costs (DOCs)
Inspection / MRO labour US$ 36.00
Airframe / system spares US$ 27.00
Avionics spares US$ 6.00
Engine spares US$ 4.50
Engine overhaul allowance US$ 79.65
Propellor overhaul allowance US$ 4.50

Total DOCs US$157.65

Additional DOCs - Fuel / Oil
Fuel - 36.5 US Gallons / hr @ US$1.70 per US Gallon US$ 62.05
Oil US$ 1.20

Total fuel / oil US$ 63.25[QUOTE]

This has labor rate in US and British, PAF pays less-sorry- :armycheers: . More Islander, Defender information on their site. Britten-Norman

israeli - April 25, 2005 11:17 AM (GMT)
a replacement for the N-22 Nomad? if i am to choose the replacement for the N-22 Nomad based on its role, i think the C-212 Aviocar best fits it best...

user posted image

user posted image

... but honestly, this is how i see things...

* replacement for the N-22 Nomad: C-212 Aviocar

* replacement for the Fokker F-27 Friendship:

- CN-235:

user posted image

user posted image

- C-295 (lengthened version of the CN-235):

user posted image

user posted image

- Basler BT-67 Turbo Dakota (old aircraft but still very viable):

user posted image

datu - July 26, 2005 07:14 PM (GMT)
-C-23

One of nly several fixed wing aircraft operated by the US Army. Based on a civilian aircraft, modified by US army to
QUOTE
answer to missions requiring an aircraft that is capable of faster, higher-altitude and longer-distance coverage than helicopters. The Sherpa comes with a low operating cost due to its simple, robust construction, compared to that of other cargo aircraft.
Seems great for transporting troops and supplies to local airfields taking the responsibility away from helicopters. Can carry 30 troops, equal number in cargo. Has STOL capability.

user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

-Beech 200/C-12 in US service-10 passengers or equal amount of cargo. Can operate from small airfields. Used extensively all over the world.

user posted image

user posted image

With warming ties to China,
-Harbin Y-12-15 passengers, amount in cargo. Airframe and design chinese but engines are P&W Canada PT6A-27 turboprops. Would be great for short cargo work.

user posted image

user posted image

flipzi - July 27, 2005 06:22 AM (GMT)
Looks good for Nomad replacement. Considering its size.

user posted image


For the bigger one? This CN235-300 is perfect.

user posted image





possible - July 2, 2006 04:56 PM (GMT)
Just updating some info:

QUOTE
DATE:29/06/06
SOURCE:Flight International

Sukhoi Su-80 commuter turboprop performs first flight

The Sukhoi Su-80GP high-wing commuter turboprop has performed its first flight ahead of a certification flight test programme planned for this year.

The aircraft (82911), powered by two General Electric ST7-9B engines, flew from the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Association (KnAAPO) runway in Siberia for a brief maiden flight (pictured below). The GP is 1.4m (4ft 7in) longer than the original two prototypes, which have already flown. Sukhoi says the aircraft will perform 15-20 certification flights this year following a series of five first test flights.

The Su-80GP quickchange cargo aircraft is designed to carry 30 passengers or 3,300kg (7,260lb) and is aimed at commuter routes up to 1,800km (1,000nm) in Russia and in rough terrain.

Production of the first serial aircraft is to begin next year.

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/...orms+first.html

The cargo ramp in the rear fuselage is used to board passengers and load/unload cargo.

The plane's takeoff and landing performance and landing gear with low-pressure tyres make it possible to use it on small airfields, including unpaved, ice and snow-covered runways.

The design provides for multi-role configuration:

    * mixed cargo aircraft Su-80GP,
    * transport aircraft Su-80GP-100.

The Su-80 GP's hallmark is its convertibility, i.e., an option of quick reconfiguration from a passenger plane into a cargo carrier and back. Preliminary estimates indicate that this will enable the aircraft to accrue more flying time on commuter airlines than any dedicated passenger or cargo aircraft.

http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/civil/su-80/

el_ramon - June 20, 2008 03:17 PM (GMT)
Guys sorry to bring this tread up again.. but we all know what our beloved PAF really needs...


Nomad Twin To Return After 25 Years

Jun 19, 2008

By Graham Warwick

Australia's N24 Nomad 17-seat utility twin-turboprop is set to return to production after a quarter-century gap following Gippsland Aeronautics' purchase of the type certificate from Boeing Australia.

Morwell, Victoria-based Gippsland makes the eight-seat GA-8 Airvan and plans to deliver the first new Nomad in late 2010. Two Australian operators have signed letters of intent--Airfreight Solutions and tour operator Grant Kelly Aviation.

Gippsland says it is in an "advanced stage of negotiation with a partner on the project" to restart production, eying a projected market for more than 200 aircraft over 10 years. The company plans to fit uprated Rolls-Royce 250-B17F II turboprops and new propellers, reduce the empty weight, and evaluate upgraded avionics and glass cockpit options.

The Nomad will compete with Viking's Twin Otter 400 and RUAG's Dornier 228, both of which are re-entering production. Government Aircraft Factories first flew the Nomad in 1971 and 54 remain operational. Boeing Australia acquired the type certificate in 1996.

Photo: Gippsland Aeronautics

link

el_ramon - June 20, 2008 03:22 PM (GMT)
BTW considering the relative success LET-410 (and it's great walter engine)had in our country in regional commuter service it's kinda amuses me why the the M28 never "click" in our region..anyone care to clear things out?

israeli - July 16, 2008 04:35 PM (GMT)
AFP to acquire light-lift aircraft - official
GMANews.tv
07/16/2008 | 01:23 AM


MANILA, Philippines - The Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) will acquire three brand-new or refurbished light-lift aircraft to increase its mobility, a high-ranking military official said Tuesday.

Maj. Gen. Jesus Llanto, deputy chief-of-staff for plans and head of the AFP Modernization Program, said they plan to replace the Air Force’s N-22 Nomad plane with light-lift aircraft such as turboprop planes because the Nomad’s spare parts are hard to get by and quite costly.

"It can still fly, but we have to admit that we would spend more for the maintenance of the aircraft," he told reporters in an interview at Camp Aguinaldo, Quezon City.

Each light-lift aircraft would cost around P980 million, Mr. Llanto said. "We just completed the bid documents, contracts are up for bidding next month."

The military’s capability upgrade program has two phases. The first deals with enhancing internal security and has a funding of P11.7 billion.

The second phase worth P22.2 billion will address territorial defense. It has yet to be funded, Mr. Llanto said.

He said up for delivery within two to three months are communication devices such as night vision goggles and radios worth P4 billion, modern mortars and inshore patrol vessels for units in insurgency-afflicted areas.

Mr. Llanto said the new equipment will increase efficiency by 70%.— J. F. S. Valdez, BusinessWorld

Zero wing - July 16, 2008 07:19 PM (GMT)
yes baka may P-3 Orion na yun

mazingu - July 17, 2008 07:35 AM (GMT)
my friend zw, hindi light lift aircraft ang P3

if the PAF wants a plane more or less in the class of the Nomad, pwede na siguro ang Chinese Harbin Y-12, cheaper but proven in service in various air forces.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-phot...1/1/0514113.jpg

Zero wing - July 17, 2008 11:41 AM (GMT)
i know pero its a good replacement

tirad - July 17, 2008 03:04 PM (GMT)
Time to revive interest in the M28 Skytruck/Bryza, which is in the class of the Nomad and could maybe do double duty as patrol and light transport. And in the grand tradition of the AFP buying American, the Polish manufacturer, PZL Mielec, is now 100% owned by Sikorsky so that would probably help swing it.

user posted image

spearhead - July 17, 2008 08:59 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (tirad @ Jul 17 2008, 11:04 PM)
Time to revive interest in the M28 Skytruck/Bryza, which is in the class of the Nomad and could maybe do double duty as patrol and light transport. And in the grand tradition of the AFP buying American, the Polish manufacturer, PZL Mielec, is now 100% owned by Sikorsky so that would probably help swing it.

user posted image

Not bad.

spraret - July 19, 2008 05:29 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Zero wing @ Jul 17 2008, 07:41 PM)
i know pero its a good replacement

sir, the P3 will not be a good replacement for the Nomad in the light-lift role.

Its primarily a Maritime Patrol Aircraft and I doubt if it can be classified as light-lift aircraft if it will be used as a transport aircraft.

kusonage08 - July 19, 2008 11:38 AM (GMT)
F27 as a replacement for the Nomad and can also be used as a MPA :specool:

user posted image

page mcney - July 19, 2008 03:45 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Zero wing @ Jul 17 2008, 07:41 PM)
i know pero its a good replacement



comrade zero wing,

we are talking about the replacement of our LIGHT TRANSPORT AIRCRAFT, the N-22 NOMAD, and the P-3 is not a light transport aircraft but a LARGE, MARITIME PATROL CRAFT (please do check and read the topic before doing quotes and replies)...

anyway, the M-28 SKYTRUCK is one of the best options to replace our existing nomads, yes it is built in Poland (by PZL mielec) but under Sikorsky management... and can be used in numerous other roles (MPA, surveillance, fire fighting, etc...)

Zero wing - July 20, 2008 09:29 AM (GMT)
ya sorry i got one Cessna 337 Skymaster

mazingu - July 20, 2008 11:32 AM (GMT)
:armysmile:

all we can do is hazard a guess or offer our suggestion but we really don't now what the PAF will ultimately get.

adrian_yamato - July 22, 2008 01:25 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (tirad @ Jul 17 2008, 11:04 PM)
Time to revive interest in the M28 Skytruck/Bryza, which is in the class of the Nomad and could maybe do double duty as patrol and light transport. And in the grand tradition of the AFP buying American, the Polish manufacturer, PZL Mielec, is now 100% owned by Sikorsky so that would probably help swing it.

user posted image

:thumb: , Not bad, Since it's already owned by an US Company Sikorsky

bustero - July 23, 2008 03:15 PM (GMT)
If a cargo ramp is not required. The PAF can also look at ATR 42. Cebu Pacific operates it's bigger brother the ATR 72. Super reliable, very inexpensive to operate, and maintenance could actually be outsourced to Cebu Pacifics MRO.

http://www.atraircraft.com/public/atr/html...cts.php?aid=508

If used primarily as freighters, then converted airplanes would cost even less and the PAF could buy it's bigger brother the ATR 72.

http://www.deagel.com/Turboprop-Airliners/...a000090001.aspx

http://www.atraircraft.com/public/atr/html...d=519&pid=30414

Just another candidate for AFP needs.

raider1011 - September 25, 2009 02:16 AM (GMT)
Old news, but still ...

AFSOC to get first 10 Skytrucks

QUOTE
By Michael Hoffman - Staff writer
Posted : Monday Feb 16, 2009 15:31:15 EST

Air Force Special Operations Command will receive its first of 10 M-28 Skytrucks — a light cargo and passenger plane — in June.

The Skytruck will shuttle small groups of special operators to areas with unimproved landing strips, said Col. JD Clem, deputy director of plans, programs, requirements and assessments for AFSOC. It will be based at Cannon Air Force Base, N.M., like AFSOC’s other non-standard aviation assets including the PC-12 Pilatus, he said.

“If I need to carry six guys some place, I don’t want to have to send a C-130,” Clem said. “But, if I want six guys to land on an unimproved strip the PC-12 is not the plane to use.”

AFSOC plans to receive the Skytrucks over the next couple years, he said. A twin engine high-wing strutted monoplane, the Skytruck can carry 19 people in the back with a maximum take-off and landing weight on 16,534 pounds and a maximum cruise speed of 223 knots, according to Skytruck Company’s Web site.

What it won’t carry is any intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance sensors, Clem said.

“The non-standard aviation is simply to haul people around. There is nothing really cosmic about it at all,” he said.

Air Force Times

raider1011 - October 24, 2009 01:32 AM (GMT)
user posted image

The Fokker 60UTA-N, also known as the Fokker F.27-0603 was developed out of the Fokker F.27 Mk 050 short before Fokker collapsed due to the financial problems. The Fokker 60 is a military version of the Fokker 50, with lengthened fuselage, a large cargo door in the right forward fuselage and APU. The Fokker 60 flew first on 2 November 1995. Only 4 were built and put in service with the RNethAF. In 2005 two Fokker 60UTA-Ns, including the U-3, have been converted to Fokker 60MPA. The Fokker 60MPAs are detached at Hato, replacing the P-3Cs of the Navy.

Aviationweb déjà vu

When the Royal Netherlands Air Force decided to buy two extra C-130's the Fokker F60's were phased out. The last flight of a 'normal' Fokker 60 was made in November 2006. Currently they are stored at Woensdrecht airbase and are up for sale.

Touchdown Aviation

As late as December 2008 all four Fokker 60s were still being talked about as available for sale on another messageboard ('sensya po, mods).

Natignan na ba ito ng PAF? Lalo na ngayon post-Ondoy at iisa lang ang ating C-130. :armyneutral:

EDIT: Additional info.

QUOTE
Fokker’s problems stemmed from a number of factors.  These included a decline in demand for aircraft which resulted in expensive overcapacity at Fokker, a decrease in achievable aircraft prices due to market conditions of low demand and high supply, and high finance charges resulting from previous reorganizations of the company.  Added to these factors was a 25 percent drop in the value of the US dollar compared to the Dutch guilder.  Since several components of Fokker aircraft were produced in Germany, the strength of the Deutsche mark against the dollar had also been a factor.  The company was thus caught in a squeeze:  often its aircraft had been sold in weaker dollars while its production costs had been covered by stronger currencies.

The basic inability to sell its aircraft at an economic price led to Fokker’s problems.  Fokker’s financial difficulties had not been due to any technical deficiencies in its aircraft nor to a lack of sales.  The Fokker 50, while not enjoying the sales success of the ATR series turboprops (its direct competition), nevertheless generally proved that it was capable of maintaining significant market share.  The program appeared to have lots of sales life left.  In particular, as the market moves toward higher capacity transports in the 65-90 passenger range, the Fokker 60 stretched version might have been a logical and profitable extension of the Fokker turboprop line.

Forecast International




Hosted for free by InvisionFree