The OV-10 has served the PAF since replacing the AT-28 as the premier Counter Insurgency close air support plane of the PAF. This plane alongside the MG-530, and sometimes SF-260-both new and layang converted versions-and what's left of the S-76 gunships-most of which are now SAR choppers-has borne the brunt of the PAF 's COIN campaign. There are some 30 airframes in the PAF inventory but only 8-10 are available at any day, the rest are grounded, stored and cannibalized for parts, and wait until funds are located to undergo overhaul. The declining numbers of OV-10s means the PAF has reassigned SF-260s in both new and layang conversions into the 15th strike wing to augement the MG-530 and OV-10. But this means that the PAF fighter cadets do not get enough planes to train on and does not get enough flight hours, which leads to the PAF postponing the graduation of fighter pilots---even if they graduate, there's no fighters for them to fly as the F-5 are grounded-. The PAF received thailand's entire stock of spares as well as 8 airframes from thailand for the cost of shipping and the PAF now has some 30 airframes.

The PAF needs a low cost fixed wing plane, armored, rugged, has alot of load capacity, can operate from basic rugged conditions. the PAF can either
replace the aircraft or to overhaul/refurbsih/upgrade the airplane. Replacements:
A-4 Skyhawk from the US or Israel. the US replaced the A-4 with the A-7 but still operates the aircraft with the USMC. the isrealis has alot of them stored waiting to be reactivated and sold. A-4s will be going for the price of the plane itself, the refurbishment, the weapons and any spares supply and training. but jets are not as cost effectice as turbo-prop aircraft.

Argentine IA-58 Pucara-twin turbo-prop COIN aircraft looks like the OV-10. carries 20 or 390mm gun, 4 50caliberHMG. plus 3000 punds of armament. british SAS destroyed pampas prior to the start of the british invasion, but those that were left did some damage and in one incident damaged a frigate by firing armor piercing rockets.

Jaguar,-twin engined trainer-turned fighter-bomber. the british areas early retiring some of their jaguars. british jaguars are more of an attack role than the french versions. can carry 10,000punds of bombs and sidewinders in an unorthodox maner, on top of the wings. the PAF does like twin-engined planes and the PAF can use this as CAS and maritime strike force against chinese enroachemtn in spratly. the indians license produce this and uses it as long range interdiction aircraft. the price of a jaguar is for $8million, but ask the british for the ones they are retiring for redurced prices, secure some trainingmaintenance/supply dela and even get parts from the indians.

T2C-the predecesor of the US goshawk(us version of the british hawk). twin engined and can carry over 3,500 punds of weapons. the US is retiring its buckeyes and some of them are still young. might ask the US to transfer some and PAF gets overhau/refurbishment and training/maintenance deal. really a simple plane to operate and fly, and can be used for training aircraft also.

ALX-the attack version of the EMB-312 tucano trainer. very low cost and rugged turbo-propplane. has fighter-like characteristics and avionics, and is a plane designed specifically for a Counter Inserguncy. an 2 internally mounted .50caliberHMG, FLIR pod has stores for over 2000 ounds of bombs. advanced avionics, OBOGS, highly responsive and agile, pressurized cockpit, ejection seats and more heavily armored than regular tucanos. again specialy designed for COIN war and in pisspoor conditions. cost for one ALX is $5million dollars.

...or the PAF can just ovehaul/refurbish/upgrade the OV-10. Colombians did this by overhaul of the plane airframe, stuctural upgrade, zero timing the engines, upgrading the engines, and the plane get new targetting systems. basically overhaul of the plane to keep it in service for another 15 years or more. cost? $1.5 million each plane.

Im for refurbishment of our Bronco airframes.

If we finally have the dinero to purchase spanking new COIN aircraft, then the Super Tucano is my personal choice.

If the funds are limited, we can purchase any of the better crop dusters out there and modify the airframes for COIN role.

Excuse me, lest the readership is misinformed. If I may ask, what Layang conversion are you referring to? How many?

The PAF acquired three variants the SF-260MP, SF-260WP and the SF-260TP. The Layang conversion was just a concept production of the Air Force Research and Development Center. That was just one airframe.

Interesting article about the AFAC Dragonfly Project, jet-powered COIN aircraft based on the old OA-37 Dragonfly:

Fighters in a box

Believe me, the plane is proposed to be transported to unimproved airstrips in containers...

what sets the layang apart from the other SF260, what are its modifications?

The Layang Project I was to convert MP/WP to the TP version, 18 were to be converted. but when OV-10 numbers dwindled the Layang Project II eventually included the fitting of 2 pylons for carrying 260 poundbombs or rocket launchers gun pods or in combinations, even locally made cluster bombs. 7 have been upgraded under Layang II so far.


http://home.comcast.net/~manokski/sf260.htm

http://www.paf.mil.ph/af_review/vol02/TPSF_LAA.HTM

Project Layang was the conversion of piston engined SF-260MP/WP into turboprop configuration. This did not happen. Instead, the turboprop SF-2670TP was modified for attack duties. The piston engined version was returned to flying training duties, augmented by leased ex-Rhodesian Air Force SF-260s.

That should clarify everything.

Two good CAS aircraft to consider:

The L159 ALCA and the Aermacchi M346. The M346 is of course a trainer but can be converted into CAS config.

did the Philippines ever operate the OV-1 Mohawk?

AFAIK , no Mohawks.

The PAF was one considering these aircraft:

Czech L-39 Albatros-the PAF once onsidered the L-39ZA/ART similar to the ones that thailand bought. This version has israeli avionics with the conckpit, flight controls and targetting syzstems. this olane lost out to the S-211 as the PAF's primary jet trainer.

CASA C-101 Aviojet-The PAF also looked at the C-101 Aviojet in the bsic jet trainer. it has 30mm guns or 2 .50caliber HMG. can carry 2250 kilograms of weapons including AGM-65 maverick missil;es.

-both these aircraft lost to the S-211. the S-211 was ordered, first italian built examples were delivered although a bulk of the 25 ordered were and locally assembled and built by PADC. the PAF after some accidents on the aircraft did not order anymore after 1998, the aircraft deal was bought using counter-trade agrrements. 19 still left. the PAF originally did not pick the L-39 or C-101 or other trainers because the PAF decided on to getting 2 different trainers. a basic and advanced one. the basic did not have to be armed and the advanced was to be used as armed LIFT. the PAF got the S-211 as basic jet trainer and the HAWK series was to be the advanced. the hawks never materialized. althought he PAF said 9 were lost and 25 were bought but still has 19 airframes, the PAF might have bought attrition replacements or rebuilt the crashed exampl;es. the PAF now has local companies both PADC and Aerotech have been contracted to maintain the aircraf twith PAF crews.

the solution to more CAS aircraft may come from the S-211. the PAF choose not to have the S-211 armed, like the S-211A version, maybe to save costs or because Hawks were to come later. the PAF modified some with drop tanks and 2 S-211 have been modified with the S-211A standard. the PAF can bring more S-211 with armed S-211A versions, to supplement the OV-10, MG-530 SF-260 layangs and S-76(most if not all are SAR versions). of the 15th strike wing. the PAF has not modified more to -A standard because of the short supply of trainers and the PAF 's need for trained fighter pilots. the S-211A has 5 hardpoints, the 2 on the wings and one in the centerline. inner hardpoints can carry 330kilograms each and the outher 165 kilograms each, and has targetting avionics. but remember the PAF likes planes that can have long loiter tiems, can go low and slow and take heavy punishment.

The PAF for some time now ther are talks of on-going negotiations and even an indonesian with background with indonesia's kt-1 trainers, has confirmed that there are negotiations with PAF and south korean officials. the PAF has been negotiating for the KT-1 Wong Bee training aircraft. although this makes no sense since the PAF with the SF-260 has a training and in the layang versions an attack craft already, and these planes are also getting maintenance from PADC and aerotech owhich are contracteed perform maintenance and overhauls on them. the KT-1 negotiations might be for the armed version of the KT-1 dubbed the OT-1or AT-1 (export version called KT-1C) , whih is very similar to the ALX. this could be for a CAS aircraft for the PAF instead of the ALX or pucara. the KT-1C has 5 hardpoints, 2 under each wing and 1 in the fusalage to house a FLIR pod. also fitted with a HUD, targetting avionics and OBOGS. again similar to the ALX.. The KT-1 is priced at around $4.5 million.

You might wanna tell Manokski that :armyskeptic:

The Bronco is a very good CAS plane, the PAF should do everything in its capacity to make all Broncos operational. Funds must be allocated for its repair, refurbishment and upgrading.

Forget fastmovers, its not realistic.

"we did, finally, get a feasibility test of the recoilless rifle on the OV-10. A standard, unmodified infantry type recoilless rifle was mounted on the centerline of an OV-10A. The OV-10 was then hoisted into the air by a crane and the rifle fired remotely. The gun fired appropriately, but the back-blast and shock wave from the unmodified nozzle slightly damaged the rudder trim tabs. I considered this quite a success considering the fact that a modified nozzle, like that suggested by Dr. Musser, together with the flight speed of the aircraft would take care of the problem on any production installation. Even without these obvious modifications, a slight beef-up of the trim tabs would have taken care of the problem."

http://www.volanteaircraft.com/ov-10.htm

check out this uber bronco!!


:drunk: this is a very nice upgrade, hope our PAF come across this one...

To play devil's advocate, can the air frames of our aged OV10s support such payloads?

ya thats right thats a good idea funny but good can save up alot of money for us but the plane is old

Nice idea but i believe its practical and simple to mount a 2.75inch rocket launcher tube instead of a RR90....

Besides its complicated to design a auto feed- hydraulic system for the Recoiless Rifle than just placing all the rockets inside the tubes and fire it via Remote-wired firing system...

nice photo gk is that the usmc ver? is that hellfire?

Nice concept! This can boost the AFP's strength a lot.

Those enemy bunkers and fortifications will be useless.

Vaporizing teros holding a gathering will be much easier.

Not enough for close air support and stealthy attack though.

This type of Bronco plus the Cobras will surely give the military a considerable improvement in firepower.

no need for cobras if we will armed our broncos like these.

Broncos with this config will do best in an all-out war but for special operations or stealthy sneaky strikes, the Cobra does it better.

The Cobras will do better in close-air support because it is more agile and can hover while training its 20mm gun at enemy positions. The Broncos cant do that.

maybe we can use our Defender for this kind of mission. it is agile as the cobra. is it possible to upgrade the Defender to carry more payloads?

I very well doubt that our Defenders can be configured to carry more loads. That would stress out both frame and engine. Would require more fuel too unless we do some serious modding like with my proposed VTDP idea - which I believe would be a good way to bridge that helicopter to airplane gap.

Any idea why such Broncos did not number much - the one modded with missiles and turreted gun?

my suggestion: rather than this concept of a bronco (picture above), why not INSTALL A FIXED, CHIN-MOUNTED 0.50cal GUN (mounted under the chin of the aircraft) and/OR A FIXED 0.50cal GATLING GUN (shorter verion of the cobra's gun) then rather than hellfire missiles (again picture above) how's about using the 2.75in FFARs ON ROCKET PODS and each rockets has the LAHAT GUIDANCE SYSTEM. the rocker pods will be configured so that it will be aerodynamic, meaning rather than the "pringles can-type" of rocket pods used by the US military (as well as ours), it will be configured like that being used by the french and the russians (conical in the front, like a large missile). with this, plus the latest upgrade that was done on two (2) sample broncos, the AF will have a "MINI-ME" TURBO-PROP VERSION OF THE A-10!

... just think about it, a light, turbo-prop version of the A-10, can be used on both COIN/insurgency and as a light battlefield type aircraft.

comments please...

I like the Gatling .50cal idea, the GAU-19 3-barrel 12.7mm having been used for some time now on Colombia's Black Hawk/"Arpia" and AC-47T. The 50cal is a staple round, cheaper than 20mm, and has sufficient range and power for anti-infantry.

However, I'd keep the pictured turreted fuselage mount instead of your proposed fixed chin-mount. You won't have to maneuver the entire aircraft, and keep it in that path. Slave it to a helmet-mounted display, turn yer head, aim, fire. The fuselage is also ideal for storing lots of ammo, you won't have the same constraints than if it was chin-mounted.

Such a TGS (turreted gun sys) as will be (chin-)mounted on the V-22 is based on the GAU-19 and it will store just under 1,500 rounds. It can slew 110 degrees to the left or right; 50 down, 20 up.

Much more versatile than fixed: the Bronco can make a frontal run at targets in a wide arc or cone. Or it can also make a good impression of a side-firing loitering platform.

And the chin would be for mounting the FLIR ball.

Why not. If those pictured pylons can each carry 4 ATGMs, then it should be able to handle 19-round rocket pods.

I also agree the PAF should look into these guided rockets like the LAHAT adaptation or "Hellfire Junior" APKWS to have some precision strike capability.

These guided rockets (bale missile na?) won't come cheap so it will likely be a mix. Each of two 19-round pods would, for example, have guided types in the 7 inner tubes, and unguided away-and-pray ones in the 12 outer ones.

Checklist:
- turreted fuselage-mounted 3bbl 12.7mm (1500 rounds)
- 2 x 19-round rocket pods on the wings (14 guided, 24 unguided)
- pair of 250 pounders in the fuselage sponsons (to the sides and just above the TGS)
- chin-mounted combo FLIR, TV, laser (e.g. FLIR Brite Star on the ARH, UH1Y, or Rafael Toplite on the FAC Arpias and some others)
- MIDASH helmet-mounted sight (FAC Arpia)
Doable, funds permitting of course.

If somebody made new-build Bronco copies with the above enhancements, plus a few more like:
- wet pylons between the engines and fuselage to carry extra fuel for increased range/loiter time
- re-engined with current-gen PT6's that still dominate the light fixed-wing scene plus quieter 6-blade props
- a small nose radar (helo or UAV types, for weather-avoidance or terrain-following/avoidance or mini-SAR)
...I'm thinking there'd still be a market for that kind of long-loiter time twin-prop armed recon aircraft, an alternative to single-engine converted trainers, attack helicopters and some roles taken on by fast-movers.
.

nice idea about having MGs on the bronco's nose but i think there won't be any space left for the landing gear system. placing them on the weapons pylons are better. i've read somewhere on this forum that the thais have been placing 50 cal MGs on the weapons stubs of their broncos. not a bad idea, eh? how about guided missiles instead of the dumb 2.75-in rockets.

comrade tirad,

thanks for the additional comments / info... i hope the AFP/AF would somehow listen to our proposals...

... hopefully.

I believe the AFP should give this concept a close look.

We can use these config in our COIN campaign, particularly in a full-scale battle. Nonetheless, this will not be good for sneak attacks on converging teros like in the case of Liguasan and that hunt for the ASG teros. The roar of the engines will send the teros scampering to safety.

What we need are fast MRFs than can cruise above the clouds silently and then dive sharply to drop powerful bombs.

The teros will be dead right before they know it. :drunk:

That's what i want the Air Force to have.

With these MRFs, arming the Broncos with the same will not be economical. When the MRF's have arrived, the Broncos can be turned into MPAs or as our main recon planes. For the MPA config, we can arm it with guided missiles for anti-ship engagements.

For close air support, nothing beats the Cobra.

yeah, AH-1 and JAS 39 Grippin...nuff said

comrade judd,

actually, our broncos are (or have been) being armed with a 0.50cal gun pod at the weapons pylon/stubs below the fuselage...

...now, for the DUMB ROCKETS you're saying, actually, as per sir tirad and my suggestion, the LAHAT PROJECT will be installed on those 2.75in FFARs so that they will be become LIGHT and INEXPENSIVE GUIDED MISSILES, a smaller version of the hellfire missile if we are to look at it. why would we buy expensive guided missile if we can transform a unguided rocket into a guided missile with a very small cost? also, the plane can carry lots of it! rather than 4 hellfires in each wing, right?

anyway, a suggestion is a suggestion... hope to see the LAHAT PROJECT to be resurrected again... hopefully...

Not ours but theirs is better than ours...



Venezuelan Bronco upgraded with FLIR....


Wish we arm our Broncos like these...




Morrocco Air Force




US Marines with Hellfire and 20mm cannon




Check em out, nice rocket launchers...


HOpe the PAF arms its Broncs like these babies... Any rebel in sight is good as dead :armycheers:

it is better if we both utilized the OV-10 , MG-520, & the AH-1F Cobra against the rebels, MG will scout & make the first strike, OV-10 slam them with rockets & bombs & the Cobra will make a check if there's a remain enemy reinforcement to killl :fire: :fire:

Mga Tol Testing natin namaghulog ng mga granada sa UH-1 tingin ko mas epektibo yun "Fire in The hole"

WOW!!! SANA GANYAN DIN ANG MGA BRONCOS NATIN...

LOOK AT THE MARINE CORPS BRONCOS, THEY HAVE AIR-TO-AIR MISSILES ALSO! (SEE THE LEFT WING PYLON AFTER THE ENGINE).

AND LOOK AT THE MOROCCAN BRONCOS, VERY IMPRESSIVE INDEED!!

WHY WE DON'T WE MODIFY OUR BRONCOS KAHIT LIKE THE MOROCCAN EXAMPLE??

HANGANG "SANA" NA LANG BA TAYO?

DATE:14/02/06
SOURCE:Flight International
Philippines left to fly solo

Singapore’s retirement of its Aermacchi S211 fleet will leave the Philippines air force as the only military operator of the basic jet trainer from 2008.

Philippines air force chief Jose Reyes says the country lacks the budget to acquire any new fixed-wing aircraft for at least the next five years and acknowledges keeping the S211 active will be challenging.

The air force now operates only four S211s from an inventory of 18, all of which Reyes says are in repairable condition.

“But they are costly to operate. If we have money we can put more in operation,” Reyes says.

The air force needs the S211, the only jet remaining in its fleet, to keep its fighter pilots proficient following the decommissioning of its last Northrop F-5 last year. It also uses the S211 for light attack missions to supplement its fleet of 14 Rockwell OV-10 Broncos.

“Without the S211 we have problems with our fighter pilots. It’s the only aircraft that retains proficiency of our fighter pilots,” Reyes says.

The air force needs to keep its S211s until it acquires a new attack aircraft to replace its OV-10s, which is now planned for 2012 to 2017. But Reyes says “maintenance and spares will be a problem”.

Contractor Aerodef Asia, however, says its inventory of S211 parts should be sufficient to support the current fleet for at least another 10 years.

Italian-owned Aerodef acquired the parts from Aermacchi several years ago and now supports the Philippines air force, the Singapore air force and a US civilian company that still operates two ex-Haiti air force S211s.

Singapore-based Aerodef Asia is seeking to buy Singapore’s 27 remaining S211s and remarket them to other operators.

Aerodef is also backing Aermacchi’s M311 campaign in Singapore, but does not see the Philippines as a potential short-term customer for the M311 because of budget constraints.

Raytheon, however, sees Philippines as a potential customer for the T-6B because the aircraft can be used as both a trainer and light attack aircraft. The T-6B could replace the S211, OV-10 and the air force’s fleet of six Aermacchi SF260 turboprops, which it uses for primary pilot training.

“I think we may have some opportunities in the Philippines,” says T-6 regional manager for the Asia-Pacific Jim DeGarmo.

Reyes says he evaluated the T-6B while it toured Australia last year and adds the air force may also be interested in Embraer’s EMB-314 Super Tucano for counter-insurgency missions. But he says the service aims to acquire a jet rather than a turboprop to replace its OV-10s.

He expects the new platform will be used for lead-in fighter training (LIFT), ground attack and fighter intercept missions. The LIFT role will be particularly important if the air force’s plan to acquire a multi-role fighter between 2018 and 2023
is realised.

Under this plan, another aircraft will eventually have to be acquired to replace the SF260s, but the air force has not included any new basic trainers in its 18-year spending plan.

In the meantime, the air force is upgrading its OV-10 fleet by equipping them with four-bladed propellers and belly cannons. The service installed the new propellers, supplied by Arizona-based Marsh Aviation, on four OV-10s last year, and will upgrade another two aircraft early this year.

The air force seeks funds to upgrade the final eight aircraft. The new propellers, coupled with slight modifications to the engine, have resulted in a 25-30% power improvement, giving the OV-10 the ability to carry heavier loads and remain over target areas longer.

The 20mm cannons have been installed on five aircraft and the service aims to equip the remaining nine by mid-2007. It has also received a proposal from Boeing and local maintenance company Asian Aerospace for a package of OV-10 structural and avionics upgrades.

But Reyes says the OV-10s can be flown for at least a few more years before they reach 15,000h, the projected end of their current service lives, and structural and avionics upgrades will only be considered after the propeller and cannon upgrades are completed.

DATE:09/08/05
SOURCE:Flight International
Philippines seeks upgrades and life extension for light attack fleet

The Philippine air force has begun an engine upgrade for part of its Rockwell OV-10 Bronco fleet and is considering a more comprehensive service life-extension programme.

Industry sources say Boeing, which acquired Rockwell, is offering the air force a package of structural enhancements and new avionics that would be installed by local maintenance company Asian Aerospace.

The two companies are trying to convince the air force to initially upgrade three or four aircraft, with possible financial support from the US government, and eventually the entire fleet of 14 aircraft. Boeing earlier led similar upgrade programmes for OV-10 operators in South America and the US Department of State.

The air force in May outfitted two of 14 OV-10s with new propellers and overhauled engines provided by Arizona-based Marsh Aviation. The service says it has contracted Marsh to help upgrade another six OV-10s with the engine and propeller installations done in-country by air force mechanics.

Industry sources say the Philippine’s ageing OV-10 fleet will also require new avionics, upgraded wiring and airframe enhancements if the aircraft are to continue performing their light attack role. The OV-10s, which are approaching 15,000h in service, are the only attack aircraft remaining in the air force’s active inventory and are playing a critical role in the fight against insurgent groups. They also are aiding the Philippines in its US-supported fight against piracy and terrorism by operating maritime patrols.

Asian Aerospace, which is now refurbishing Lockheed Martin C-130s and Fokker F27s for the air force, has set aside one of its four hangars at Clark air base outside Manila for potential OV-10 upgrades. But the air force says an avionics/structural upgrade programme has not been officially launched.

Meanwhile, the refurbishment and reactivation of the first of four of the air force’s C-130Bs has again been delayed because additional structural work is required. Asian Aerospace, which initially planned to complete its first C-130 overhaul last year for $1.5 million, now plans to deliver the aircraft in October.

BRENDAN SOBIE/SINGAPORE

I guess its better to look for a jet aircraft for Multirole Tactical missions. like LIFT for interception and ground attack mission... Let us hope that our Airforce command will choose the South Korean AT-50 light figher or Chinese FC1 which is designed for replacing the role left by F5 fighter which has a Limited air-to-air capability and for ground attack missions...

Other candidate is to licensed produced Franco-German light attack figher jet like the Alpha jet...very impressive for a light attack jet. It can fly the speed of 621mph much faster than S211 and closer to BAe Hawk (645mph) or Embraer AMX (651mph).

just how long our govt intend to see our equipment rot until they grow-up and actually set aside budget for our needs. thats their madated duty anyway. besides this spending is not only for the AFP but for our country.
i guess they want so see more or already desensitize of seeing pinoys begging of the things that our country deserves. darn politics is getting to far.

upgrading will not do anything
okay i agree that this ac is good
and also i would say it is worth to keep them to fight the rebels

but what PAF needs a real AIRFORCE TOYS

side countries are already posing the su30mkm f16 and f18 more in future

it is not good for PH