How many divisions are there in the phill Army?

Do you have a mechanized division and how soldiers are there in one division?

Thank you for your answers.


:specool:

8 inf divisions @ around 5000 men per...

no mech division

Are your figures correct? A division with only 5000 officers and men is quite small you know.

1) there is a mechanized infantry batallion in fort bonifacio(anti-coup unit)
2) Light armored Regiment (PALAR) based in Camp O'Donnell in Capas, Tarlac operates Simba, V-300, V-150, and Scorpion light tanks. this is another anti-coup unit as well as protect the luzon central plains which is suitable for armored warfare.
3) 8 field artillery batallions(FAB) with 105mm howitzers with 1 artillery batallion per army division.
4) the 155mm long toms, 120mm heavy mortars and 106mm recoiless rifles are strategic reserve . thye only get used during division-sized assaults such as during the AFP counter-offensive in 2000 against the MILF 'Stainless Steel' defense line around Camp Abu-bakr.
5) armored companies(simbas, m-113s or AIFVs) are attached to brigades

its nine (9) already.. 9th ID is currently deployed in Bicol Region

i forgot ,heres the continuation:

1) PA has 9 light infantry divisions. each division has 5,000 to 6,000 men in 3 brigades except for the 9th division(this is a new division) which has 2 brigades currently. The PA division is similar to the US army 25th tropical division of Hawaii.
2) The PA has about 60,000 CAFGU territorials. generally ,each CAFGU territorial company is led by a special forces lieutenant.
3) PA reserve has 15 standby reserve divisions
4) during wartime emergency mobilization, the AFP will deputize the 117,000 National police force who in turn will deputize the 300,000 security guards of private security companies.
5) there are 860,000 civilian licensed firearm holders and up to 2,000,000 unlicensed firearm holders in the philippines. based on past philippine history and resistance, this civilian gunowners will form guerilla groups.

ayosss pare kahit China invaders pa talo sa 2,000,000 unlicensed firearms holders na yan...e mas high powered pa nga ang mga armas kesa military natin... :armyLol:

regular division of the PA is quite small compare to the Division of the US Army, that's the reality and besides PA don't fight as a Division...

the degradation of the MILF islamic army in 2000 was accomplished by 2 Marine brigades as the spearheads supported by 2 PA army divisions. the MILF camps including camp bushra, camp bilal, and camp abubakr and the islamic 'stainless steel' line were destroyed in a pincer movement. The 4th PA division spearheaded by a marine brigade that conducted an amphibious landings from 2 LSTs docking in Cagayan de oro and on the shores of Baloi, Lanao attacking from the northern mindanao and the 6th PA 'Kampilan' division spearheaded by another marine brigade attacking from southern mindanao. the elite division of the MILF known as the Bangsa Islamic Armed Forces(BIAF) Islamic national guard division ceased to operate as an effective unit after continuous offensive attacks by AFP combined arms.
-END-

what im trying to say is the PA don't fight as a division alone.. it usually work hand in hand with other AFP units as compared to the US Army.. regular US Division has the capability to fight alone without the support of other units... as shown in the last Gulf War.. while PA division usually attach units from other ID because of the lack of manpower of our regular Division... as shown in the all out war against the MILF.. they utilized the SRBn and the Sr snipers because ID units don't have their capabillity.

what came of then of the division-led ranger units, was this cancelled?

nope.. they act as the striker and recon units.. i believe every Bn has its own recon platoon.. saka karamihan ng tropa ay graduate ng SR course.. yun nga lang medyo kinakalawang dahil kulang sa retraining ang iba... pero they regularly send personnel to SRTS for training... after their training kinikuha sila ng recon platoon

I've heard they call this ID units as Division Recon Company or DRC.

Some said they were patterned after the Scout Rangers. The ID cmdrs wanted a ready pool of strike units at their own disposal.

But they are not as trained and deadly as the Scout Ranger companies yet.

It's a good structure nonetheless, as i see it.

I guarantee that we'll be using our arms to take out any armed force stupid enough to invade our country.

In the last mindanao campaign where division size ops were undertaken, there were no DRCs yet. DRCs is not even 4 years old yet. DRCs replaced the roles of the old Independent SR Companies.

These SR companies that were under the FSRR but not attached to an SR Battalion. They are usually seconded to divisions as Division recon and strike companies.

These ISRCs used to have the best resources in the army, they even have their own RR section, mortar section and sometimes a mech platoon/element.

In the events following the 1987-1989 coup attempts, the independent SRCs were abolished as they are lightning fast in redeploying into metro manila, they were pivotal in urban raids of several camps including the takeover of VAB and securing makati.

Upon the abolition of the ISRC and FSRR, the divisions lost strike capability. During the abu bakr campaign, the FSRR was just newly reconstituted, the Divisions were face with this strike capability dilemna. Thus SRB assets were broken up to complement divisonal forces. Rarely did SRBs operated as battalions during this campaign. Post mortem to this campaign, division commanders saw the gap in capability and reorganized their companies to least have one DRC.

DRC elements are sent to SRTS for training usually after a year or so of DRC duties. SRTS provides training to DRC capability needs i.e. methods, tactics, and jungle warfare.

This is true as PA Infantry Division still have area duties even if a campaign is required. PA usually reinforces the lead division (the division that handles the area where the campaign has to be made) with units from other ID, Support Brigades (i.e. armored brigade), Special Units (i.e. SR, SF, LRC) or CMO units.

5000 men on paper. Again, on paper.

so what is the ballpark figure then?

more or less than 5000 officers and men?

Roughly 3500 fighting men if you do not include batallion/brigade/division staff, men on training rotation, support companies and staff support elements. At least that is my fighting estimate. That should have 3 brigades or 9 battalions or 27 companies or 81 platoons plus officers.

A division can be manned by more than 5000 to 6000 men depending on the inherent support requirements. Other on demand requirements are borrowed from other units.

If a division campaign erupts, the local companies of the division area appropriates at least two platoons to the campaign thus mustering 54 platoons, they are usually reinforced by an SRBn with 6 platoons (minimum), maybe another 6 from the SF (minimum) and another 15 from other IDs (or at least one full battalion). The campaign can then muster 81 colorful platoons plus reserve from adjacent divisions (2 to 4 battalions).

Thus a division campaign have more than 108 platoons on the division area with additional reserve but roughly 81 platoons is fighting in the core front. That is roughly 5000 infantrymen on the division area alone.

Just curious, given the shortage of lieutenants in the army, how many officers are there in an army battalion? I understand there was a time when a battalion had only a dozen officers. The air force "infantry" battalions have a complement of as much as 30 officers.

What is the advantage of small divisions , why not just operate independent brigades insted of divisions?

So we can have many generals. :fire:

remember pendejo that brigades are supposedly headed by generals, the onestar variety.

Exactly, with more divisions, they can have more two star positions. As if brigades cannot operate independently.

the army can save a lot of money by downsizing to brigades and assign only full colonels as COs instead of BGs, division size operations are very rare so the division is not much applicable in the philippines

Bingo. Same with the air force.

there are many officers in the air force but very few planes, is the military putting these officers into good use, i mean to justify the salaries the taxpayers pay for their upkeep, they should be assigned to other useful tasks other than waiting for some airplane to fly.. :dunno:

Well they can do some tree planting in the Sierra Madre nd coastal cleanup along Manila Bay shores or assist traffic enformers in Metro Manila.

:specool:

A brigade should have at least 50 officers

Simply because an MILF Commander can easily muster a light division or at least a reinforced brigade. There should be an organization within the army to easily muster forces at least at par without abandoning their normal area coverage. Independent brigades can not do this, this role is only reserved for mechanized brigades.

Also we have special regiments who really act as independent brigades these are SF and SR and maybe LRB soon. Their fighting size is comparable to a brigade but their organizational size is much bigger. Part of their roles is to plug the bean count gap.

But a military organization with many colonels commanding brigade size units can be dangerous. These guys will always covet the higher position and some will want to achieve absolute power the shortest way possible eg coup de etat...

:drunk:

I understand your fear of a power grab but how can having many brigades be more dangerous than brigades under divisions. Do you mean, division commanders are less prone to taking over a government? Sorry, di ko gets.

kasi siguro sa isip ni tiger mga colonel ang pasimuno sa kudeta tulad ni col honasan :demon:

Required reading for all those who want to understand, Coup d'Etat: A Practical Handbook by Edward Luttwak

The coup is not necessarily assisted by either the intervention of the masses, or, to any significant degree, by military-type force. A coup consists of the infiltration of a small but critical segment of the state apparatus, which is then used to displace the government from its control. A coup does not seek to destroy the basic structure of the existing government, which is more typical of a revolution or a war for liberation. A coup d'etat aims to seize power within the present system.

Generally, the characteristics of a succesful coup are: support of a political group, approval of a foreign power, and has to be achieved or success assured within the first 24 hours with the objective of securing the seat of government.

The military component is merely a tool.

EDSA 1 was a coup
EDSA 2 was a coup

The Oakwood incident was a mutiny, although it could have evolved into a coup.

if i may remind you pendejo, the oakwood mutiny might have been led by junior officers but there is still that unresolved issue that our old friend col honasan was also behind it.

Thank you for the reminder, and I do not disagree. Take note, our good friend's unresolved or alleged participation, if ever, was not as a Colonel but as Senator. Read Luttwak.

Thai Army division is equivalent to 2 PA divisions :armyeek: :bow:

And look at the budget for a single division:

it may be so in standing strength, but it maybe close to our fighting strength. Thai divisions are usually mechanized or armored (they are the first country in SEA that built up armored assets in the 70s, I have seen their tank farms). Knowing that this new division is for COIN roles, the division will require, COIN role armor, drivers and crew, support personnel and normal infantry/ armor riders. I reckon each brigade have 3 inf Bn, 1 transport Bn, 1 or 2 armor Bn while each inf Bn will have its own armored carriers/gun platforms + recon formations (may even be mechanized recon/scout elements). I will not be surprised if they can reach 12,000 men.

I don't think so , do you really think that the Thai actually send a mechanised or armoured Div to fight insurgency?

It will be overkilled!!! :armyLol:

I fact int'l standard for div is usually abt 14K~ 20K, US light infantry Div( their light Infantry it self have some armour asset in it) is abt 18K of soldiers.

An infantry Bn is abt 600~800men, thus lets say 3 Bn formed a Bde and 3 Bde form a Div, then you will have abt 5.4~7.2k right?

You might ask how come it is more than 10k in a Div?

That is because there are many other support Bn in a Div for example:

Air Defence Bn, 2~3 Arty Bn, Signal Bn,Engineer Bn, Recon Bn, Field Med Bn,Maint Bn,Logistics Bn and some even a Aviation Bn etc

Thus a Div could easily have another 10 more Bn to support the maneuver Bn(abt 9~10 Bn).

Thus a PA Div is actually very small as compare to many other armies.

Why not? The brits did find use of light armor as a maneuver/blocking force complementing jungle fighting forces in Malaya and British North Borneo. A freedom fighters nightmare is track mounted mortar in front of him and jungle fighting troops behind him (considering safety issues with friendlies) as he exfiltrate himself from the jungle to dissappear into rural villages.

If you have actually been to Southern Thailand, jungles and mountain ranges abound in the west but the eastern parts is rural plains. The only method of undetected movement by insurgents are covert small team methods, leafrogging each village and large formation movements along the river or stream gullies. Except for the mountains south of Surat thani and the sparse jungles found until south near sungai pattani border, the whole area is developed rural farmlands. Perfect movement ground for mech and COIN armor.